Immorality in the Book of Mormon

[DeepShadow]

Originally Posted by spiritually inclined

I still do not understand why a loving God would withhold forgiveness from any soul wishing to change and progress out of hell.

I agree, and I think the scriptures back this up. People who remain in hell have chosen to be there, and have no interest in changing nor progressing.

I'll give the rest of your post some more thought before responding.

[spiritually inclined]

I agree, and I think the scriptures back this up. People who remain in hell have chosen to be there, and have no interest in changing nor progressing.

I'll give the rest of your post some more thought before responding.

Thank you.

James

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by spiritually inclined

I do not generally believe that physical death is a curse. Still, how does that justify the murder of children? How are they responsible for the deeds of their society or parents? Why should they be allowed to suffer by God?

Actually, the scripture is quite clear that God did stir them up:

Even if you do not believe he directly stirred up the Medes, as this verse says, the effects are the same. God withdraws protection from sinful people, yet allows innocent children to suffer the consequences, according to this selection of Scripture. I do not view that as just.

I do not judge Allah or God. I do, however, judge the views and actions people attribute to their god as immoral. To believe that God would command or allow that innocent children be murdered because of the sins of others is to me very unjust, and these beliefs, held by some Christians, remind me of the beliefs of radical Muslims who, unlike some people, ARE willing to act on these beliefs by murdering others. You are defending scriptures that talk about something as serious as killing children. I must ask you again how you would feel about religious fanatics who believe your own children should be put to death.

Why should children suffer the consequences? How could they have rejected God's help? How could they have been worthy of murder?

I have a clearer understanding of what Mormons teach about eternal torment. I still do not understand why a loving God would withhold forgiveness from any soul wishing to change and progress out of hell.

James

This is the same, often asked question of why does God allow the innocent to be hurt? We will continue to give the same answer. Agency.

We are free to choose and too-often others are hurt by our choices. The consequences will come and there will be justice. We have very limited perspective. This life is a brief slice of our eternal existance. Much of what becomes of us is determined by this brief slice, yet it is so brief. Those innocents who are hurt or killed are received into their father's arms. We do not know what they feel the moment their spirit leaves their bodies. We don't even know what happens moments before. We don't know what God has done to soften the pain to the innocent, because they aren't here to tell us. We talk as if death is the worst of all, yet none of us has experienced it. How do we know what death is like?

I am personally so tired of hearing God insulted and decried because he does not do things like we would do them. As if we know better. And those who curse him the most are the ones who don't believe he exists. How nonsensical is that?

We just don't know, yet we think we know it all. We think we are smarter than God, who created us and remembers all things from the beginning. We say we are smarter than God who knows us better than we know ourselves.

Sometimes if we just stop blasting him, and listen, read what he has to say, we might learn something.

Sorry, this post turned into a rant. Didn't mean it to become that, especially nothing directly to you, SI. It just gets to me sometimes.

[spiritually inclined]

We just don't know, yet we think we know it all.

You're right. We don't know. That is part of the reason it scares me for you to justify the murder of children with something like:

Those innocents who are hurt or killed are received into their father's arms.

Murder is murder. I can't believe in a justification for it.

James

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by spiritually inclined

You're right. We don't know. That is part of the reason it scares me for you to justify the murder of children with something like:


Murder is murder. I can't believe in a justification for it.

James

Anyone who unjustly murders will be punished.

I'm sorry. Are you talking about why God doesn't protect children from murderers, or about why God doesn't save children from disasters, like accidents, storms, etc? I was addressing the former scenario in my post.

[spiritually inclined]

The children I speak of are the ones who were forced to be punished because of the wickedness of others.

2 Nephi 23
23:15 Every one that is proud shall be thrust through; yea, and every one that is joined to the wicked shall fall by the sword.

23:16 Their children, also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled and their wives ravished.

23:17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver and gold, nor shall they delight in it.

23:18 Their bows shall also dash the young men to pieces, and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.

Why would these children need to be murdered along with the wicked? That is what I am asking.

James

[DeepShadow]

SI, regarding the verse about "stirring up" the Medes and Persians, I think the crucial part here is that God must work with earthly resources. When He withdraws His protection and allows a violent and bloodthirsty people "off the chain," they will do as they normally do. I'm sure if there were a violent people on earth who nevertheless were so careful as to spare children, God would prefer them over other instruments of wrath.

[BalanceFx]

Originally Posted by DeepShadow

SI, regarding the verse about "stirring up" the Medes and Persians, I think the crucial part here is that God must work with earthly resources. When He withdraws His protection and allows a violent and bloodthirsty people "off the chain," they will do as they normally do. I'm sure if there were a violent people on earth who nevertheless were so careful as to spare children, God would prefer them over other instruments of wrath.

??????????????

Right.... Sure.....