Why I think a lot of the Bible is False

[little_monkey]

Originally Posted by raibeart

Biased: Yes only the OT is true and the NT is false.

Unbiased. Yes and no. Some of the NT may be true, but not all of it. Some of it could be fabricated, some could actually ahve been. It is hard to say.

Some would say, it is either all true, but any small part is false, then the whole thing is false. How would you counter that? Is it important to decide -- it is true or false -- if it depends on what part is true and which are not?

[Riverwolf]

Originally Posted by little_monkey

Some would say, it is either all true, but any small part is false, then the whole thing is false. How would you counter that? Is it important to decide -- it is true or false -- if it depends on what part is true and which are not?

First you have to clarify what you mean by "true." Historically true? Philosophically true? Practically true? Mythologically true?

Is the Bible a good source of history? No. It is biased and full of gaps.

Is the Bible a good source of philosophy? Definitely. I consider many of the philosophies of Jesus to be very true.

Does the Bible accurately describe the Spiritual realm? That remains to be seen. (but I'd guess... not likely)

[little_monkey]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

First you have to clarify what you mean by "true." Historically true? Philosophically true? Practically true? Mythologically true?

Is the Bible a good source of history? No. It is biased and full of gaps.

Is the Bible a good source of philosophy? Definitely. I consider many of the philosophies of Jesus to be very true.

Does the Bible accurately describe the Spiritual realm? That remains to be seen. (but I'd guess... not likely)

True in the sense that every word speaks of the truth -- no errors whether historical, scientific, philosophics, logical, etc. After all, if this is the "word of God", then it should be absolutely true in every imaginable way...

[Riverwolf]

Originally Posted by little_monkey

True in the sense that every word speaks of the truth -- no errors whether historical, scientific, philosophics, logical, etc. After all, if this is the "word of God", then it should be absolutely true in every imaginable way...

Except that the Bible never claims to be the "Word of God." That label was given to it by other people when the current canon was compiled by Constantine, hundreds of years after the gospels were written.

Just because there are details that are incorrect, which is always true of every history book, anyway, does that mean the overall message is void? After all, the Golden Rule is NOT "worship God every chance you get and if you simply say the words 'I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior' that's an automatic get-out-of-hell-free card and make sure that you have no doubts that the Bible is the Word of God";

it's "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Try to name any Christian political leader who actually followed that. (I'm sure there are some at least)

[little_monkey]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

Except that the Bible never claims to be the "Word of God." That label was given to it by other people when the current canon was compiled by Constantine, hundreds of years after the gospels were written.

Just because there are details that are incorrect, which is always true of every history book, anyway, does that mean the overall message is void? After all, the Golden Rule is NOT "worship God every chance you get and if you simply say the words 'I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior' that's an automatic get-out-of-hell-free card and make sure that you have no doubts that the Bible is the Word of God";

it's "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Try to name any Christian political leader who actually followed that. (I'm sure there are some at least)

So sure, you can find some truths in there, but so in Homer's Odyssey and many other texts. But the bible holds a special place for Christians. So the debate about its veracity must focus around what Christians say about it. If you take the interpretation that Jesus died on the cross to redeem humanity because of Adam&Eve's original sin, then it matters that Adam and Eve were created as described in the bible and committed the original sin. Now, it may not be your interpretation, but it is the most prevalent one. And the whole thing hinges on that. Or am I mistaken?

On a side note: as to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you," you can find that in other cultures, such as the Ancient Greeks and Indians.

[Riverwolf]

Originally Posted by little_monkey

So sure, you can find some truths in there, but so in Homer's Odyssey and many other texts. But the bible holds a special place for Christians. So the debate about its veracity must focus around what Christians say about it. If you take the interpretation that Jesus died on the cross to redeem humanity because of Adam&Eve's original sin, then it matters that Adam and Eve were created as described in the bible and committed the original sin. Now, it may not be your interpretation, but it is the most prevalent one. And the whole thing hinges on that. Or am I mistaken?

Only for Bible-literalists, and not all Christians are such. Some might view the original sin by Adam and Eve to be a metaphor for something the first humans, as an entire group, did that was against God. (maybe touching that big black dominoe thingie wasn't such a good idea...)

Don't forget that not all Christians are the same. In fact, there are some who feel the entire Hebrew Bible to be null and fake. Heck, the first guy to compile a Christian Bible, Marcion, felt the God in the Hebrew Bible to be evil and not the God Jesus taught, so his Christian Bible only had a mangled version of the Gospel of Luke, with all references to the Hebrew Bible ommited, and ten of Paul's letters. (and, of course, not many people liked him; one person even, to his face, called him the firstborn of Satan)

Originally Posted by little_monkey

On a side note: as to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you," you can find that in other cultures, such as the Ancient Greeks and Indians.

Indians, yes. Ancient Greeks... I thought that if someone wronged you, you had to take revenge so as to regain your honor. Wasn't that demonstrated in the Odyssey?

And I never said the philosophical truths found in the Bible can only be found in the Bible.

[Heneni]

Originally Posted by little_monkey

So, is the Bible false, yes or no?

Maybe.


PS: I'm happy i'm not struggling with this anymore. We are thousands of years into the end and we havent sorted out the basics yet. For me the bible is TRUTHFUL. A bit inaccurate when it comes to numbers and stuff, but still pretty darn amazing.

[little_monkey]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

Only for Bible-literalists, and not all Christians are such. Some might view the original sin by Adam and Eve to be a metaphor for something the first humans, as an entire group, did that was against God. (maybe touching that big black dominoe thingie wasn't such a good idea...)

Don't forget that not all Christians are the same. In fact, there are some who feel the entire Hebrew Bible to be null and fake. Heck, the first guy to compile a Christian Bible, Marcion, felt the God in the Hebrew Bible to be evil and not the God Jesus taught, so his Christian Bible only had a mangled version of the Gospel of Luke, with all references to the Hebrew Bible ommited, and ten of Paul's letters. (and, of course, not many people liked him; one person even, to his face, called him the firstborn of Satan)



Indians, yes. Ancient Greeks... I thought that if someone wronged you, you had to take revenge so as to regain your honor. Wasn't that demonstrated in the Odyssey?

And I never said the philosophical truths found in the Bible can only be found in the Bible.

According to a UN study, there are 34,000 Christian denominations. So yeah, they do not all agree on what the bible says, but they do have a common thread, otherwise the word "Christian" is meaningless. Also, Christians make up 33% of the world. There are 270 major religions, of which Christianity is only one, each claiming to have the absolute truth.

So, on that basis, who decides if the bible is true or false? and how do we decide? Obviously, a democratic vote on the question would yield a predictable resounding no.

And then even among a very small minority of those who would say that the bible is true, you would get thousands of different interpretations, each claiming to be the absolute truth.

[Riverwolf]

Originally Posted by little_monkey

According to a UN study, there are 34,000 Christian denominations. So yeah, they do not all agree on what the bible says, but they do have a common thread, otherwise the word "Christian" is meaningless. Also, Christians make up 33% of the world. There are 270 major religions, of which Christianity is only one, each claiming to have the absolute truth.

So, on that basis, who decides if the bible is true or false? and how do we decide?