Biblical Plagues compared with STD's (morals, punishment, homosexuality, choice)

[firstsamuel]

This is going to be posed as a topic for discussion and so in my introduction of the subject I am not going to include an exhaustive essay.
The focus of the subject centers around a question that was asked of me by a person who is HIV positive. Just for your own data, he is heterosexual, contracted the disease at 16, and at that time had had about 8 sexual partners. He later married the girl he had already started a relationship with and had a little girl. His wife is HIV+ but his daughter is not. The question he asked me is this: " Is Aids a plague?"
After a good bit of thought I formulated the reply that I will share with you.

First, all of the plagues that I have read of in the Bible that were sent by God upon people for punishment have all been quickly acting plagues and indiscriminant. Some examples:
The plagues sent upon the Egyptians. All of the ten plagues were visited upon the entire population of the Egyptians, but not on the Hebrews. So, although the Hebrews were left out, the Egyptians suffered without discrimination. Excepting the final plague, which killed only the firstborn of the Egyptians( which in itself was indiscriminant).
The plagues mentioned in Chronicles for the sin of David in taking a census. It lasted 3 days and killed indiscriminantly.
These are only two examples. But from them I gather that AIDS is not a plague on the scale of the plagues described as sent from God in the Bible.
Now! Disease affecting sexual promiscuity has always been in tact. Probably initiating the prohibition of such, along with the prohibition of unclean food sources that also carry the risks of disease.
So, my answer to him was no, that AIDS wasn't a plague in the Biblical sense but was only a continuing prohibitive threat to those who practice sexual promiscuity.
I fully understand that there are exceptions of people who acquire this virus in a way other than sexually. But, by and large most people contract it through sex. So, my summation was that it wasn't a plague but a deterrent to promiscuous behaviour.
Now, having said that, I want to also state that homosexuality in itself is not in danger from AIDS. If practiced in a monogamous relationship there is absolutely no risks of contracting the disease. I think this is a bold endorsement of all monogamous relationships. Homosexuality included. So that just being gay is not under the same condemnation as promiscuity.

[fromthe heart]

Originally Posted by firstsamuel

This is going to be posed as a topic for discussion and so in my introduction of the subject I am not going to include an exhaustive essay.
The focus of the subject centers around a question that was asked of me by a person who is HIV positive. Just for your own data, he is heterosexual, contracted the disease at 16, and at that time had had about 8 sexual partners. He later married the girl he had already started a relationship with and had a little girl. His wife is HIV+ but his daughter is not. The question he asked me is this: " Is Aids a plague?"
After a good bit of thought I formulated the reply that I will share with you.

First, all of the plagues that I have read of in the Bible that were sent by God upon people for punishment have all been quickly acting plagues and indiscriminant. Some examples:
The plagues sent upon the Egyptians. All of the ten plagues were visited upon the entire population of the Egyptians, but not on the Hebrews. So, although the Hebrews were left out, the Egyptians suffered without discrimination. Excepting the final plague, which killed only the firstborn of the Egyptians( which in itself was indiscriminant).
The plagues mentioned in Chronicles for the sin of David in taking a census. It lasted 3 days and killed indiscriminantly.
These are only two examples. But from them I gather that AIDS is not a plague on the scale of the plagues described as sent from God in the Bible.
Now! Disease affecting sexual promiscuity has always been in tact. Probably initiating the prohibition of such, along with the prohibition of unclean food sources that also carry the risks of disease.
So, my answer to him was no, that AIDS wasn't a plague in the Biblical sense but was only a continuing prohibitive threat to those who practice sexual promiscuity.
I fully understand that there are exceptions of people who acquire this virus in a way other than sexually. But, by and large most people contract it through sex. So, my summation was that it wasn't a plague but a deterrent to promiscuous behaviour.
Now, having said that, I want to also state that homosexuality in itself is not in danger from AIDS. If practiced in a monogamous relationship there is absolutely no risks of contracting the disease. I think this is a bold endorsement of all monogamous relationships. Homosexuality included. So that just being gay is not under the same condemnation as promiscuity.

When Aids first hit I think a lot of people thought it was coming as punishment on those who led a certian lifestyle...since it's shown that it just came about as most viruses do...but this virus kills so it makes it more important to remain careful...I still see kids taking those risks though...I suppose they think it can't happen to them because it's somene elses disease.

[firstsamuel]

Actually, now, with the advent of new drugs, it has the possiblity of killing. There are a lot of people who have the infection who are living fine ( excluding the side effects of the drugs). Whether or not having the virus is a certainty of death is yet undetermineable. There may very well be a forthcoming cure. Never-the-less, other STD's also have the potential to kill without treatment. And there is always the threat of some new, undiscovered virus.

[fromthe heart]

That's a really good point I think for every disease cured there are 2 or more to take their places. I've never taken a flu shot,afraid of needles...but I never seem to gert the same strain as everyone else either...I think things are becoming more customized to our weaknesses...if you have weak lungs it'll hit there...but we have so many strange viruses now that it makes one wonder just what's next. I've heard some people say it's some sort of government letting these things into the air for us to catch...it does make one wonder about whether these flu's are put out there BY someone.

[nightwolf]

We have to wonder when it comes to stds if they are send by God. Through time there has been stds yes, but not to the extent of aids. God wants his people to hear. These less serius stds have been around and for all that time (I feel morso now) people have not been taking in account the words of God when it comes to lust and sex outside of marriage. Our God loves us all, but wants us to live with morals that include no sex outside of marriage, no lust. We live in a sinful world and God needs to be heard. Think about this, if everyone did relashonships as it says in the bible, all stds would end!

[Jaymes]

Originally Posted by nightwolf

Think about this, if everyone did relashonships as it says in the bible, all stds would end!

Untrue. It is possible for STDs to pass from mother to child during birth. Through no fault of the child, it would have an STD.

[robtex]

Originally Posted by firstsamuel

So, my summation was that it wasn't a plague but a deterrent to promiscuous behaviour.
If practiced in a monogamous relationship there is absolutely no risks of contracting the disease. I think this is a bold endorsement of all monogamous relationships. Homosexuality included. So that just being gay is not under the same condemnation as promiscuity.

I just want to clairfy what you are saying cause I am not sure due to your word choice. Are you saying that God spawned aids as a meathod of promoting monogamous relationships? And in addition it qualifies as a lesson in morality via God but does not qualify as a plaugue? I just want to make sure I understand what you just wrote.

[firstsamuel]

Okay, let me be careful here, because I don't want to unwittingly offend someone who is suffering from the disease. In answering your question, Robtex, I am sort of saying that God is promoting a monogamous relationship. There are two ways to think about disease. One, that diseases exist just because of cause and effect, and that the warnings in the Bible can lead someone into a safer lifestyle. This idea would include the need for the dietary restrictions given in the Torah( five books of Moses). For instance, the health concerns about eating pork, raw meat, shellfish, etc.
The second way of looking at disease is in attributing them as a judgement on certain types of lifestyles. If you lean in this direction, then yes, STD's would qualify as a lesson in morality via God.
The plagues described in the Bible as sent by God generally strike indiscriminately. STD's (generally) only strike those involved in unsafe sexual practices.
So, yes, my point in this debate is that there is a moral judgement, evidenced by disease, against promiscuous sexual behavior.
My ultimate point, and the one I am trying to express, is that there is no concrete, tangible judgement against homosexual behaviour by God if it is practiced within the same confines of marriage.
So that the conclusion I am aiming for is that same-sex marriage is the most moral option for the church to decide upon for those who are homosexual in their orientation.
There is a lot more to say on this subject, including the (8th?) commandment: Thou shalt not commit adultery. It all seems to point to a judgement by God on sexual sin, adultery being the quintessential offense ( and all others following in lesser degrees of sinfulness) probably listed as the definitive offense because it has a very strong tendency to lead to murder.
So, now, what do you think/

[Melody]

Originally Posted by firstsamuel

So that the conclusion I am aiming for is that same-sex marriage is the most moral option for the church to decide upon for those who are homosexual in their orientation.
There is a lot more to say on this subject, including the (8th?) commandment: Thou shalt not commit adultery. It all seems to point to a judgement by God on sexual sin, adultery being the quintessential offense ( and all others following in lesser degrees of sinfulness) probably listed as the definitive offense because it has a very strong tendency to lead to murder.
So, now, what do you think/

I think if you want to stamp out sex between same sex partners, allow them to get married. Oh yeah....and have kids.

[firstsamuel]

Of course. Hard hearts.