The Real Question (ritual, atheist, spiritual, worship, God)

[lilithu]

People spend a lot of time arguing over whether God exists or not, with certain atheists trying to prove God does not and certain theists trying to prove that God does exist.

Not only is this logically impossible, but it misses the most important question about God. Seriously, why do you care whether your neighbor believes or doesn't believe? The thing that should most concern you is how your neighbor behaves toward others because that is what is going to directly affect you. Therefore the fundamental question should not be over existence; it should be (given the presumed existence of God): What does one believe God stands for?

Even for atheists who think all this God-stuff is made up, surely you can see that the concepts have powerful influences on behavior. What one believes about God's values strongly influences the values that one will uphold oneself. If one believes in a God that "saves" believers and condemns unbelievers then one is likely to view humans that way oneself. And one will also vote in a way that reflects that. If one believes in a God that loves everyone, then one will more likely try to emulate that oneself. And one will also vote in a way that reflects that. etc. Religion is a powerful motivator for both good and ill. And despite what some think it's not going away. So the question isn't "Is there a God?" The real question is "What does God stand for in this world?"

[+Xausted]

Originally Posted by lilithu

People spend a lot of time arguing over whether God exists or not, with certain atheists trying to prove God does not and certain theists trying to prove that God does exist.

Not only is this logically impossible, but it misses the most important question about God. Seriously, why do you care whether your neighbor believes or doesn't believe? The thing that should most concern you is how your neighbor behaves toward others because that is what is going to directly affect you. Therefore the fundamental question should not be over existence; it should be (given the presumed existence of God): What does one believe God stands for?

Even for atheists who think all this God-stuff is made up, surely you can see that the concepts have powerful influences on behavior. What one believes about God's values strongly influences the values that one will uphold oneself. If one believes in a God that "saves" believers and condemns unbelievers then one is likely to view humans that way oneself. And one will also vote in a way that reflects that. If one believes in a God that loves everyone, then one will more likely try to emulate that oneself. And one will also vote in a way that reflects that. etc. Religion is a powerful motivator for both good and ill. And despite what some think it's not going away. So the question isn't "Is there a God?" The real question is "What does God stand for in this world?"

I think the question should be
What does God ideally stand for in this world?
otherwise you will have people giving very negative interpratations to your question

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by +Xausted

I think the question should be
What does God ideally stand for in this world?
otherwise you will have people giving very negative interpratations to your question

I agree that there will be people who will give very negative interpretations. But part of my argument is that's self-defeating behavior. I suppose that if all one wants is to feel better about oneself by putting others down, then one can paint a very negative picture of God and say "That's what other people worship." But if one truly wants to make the world a better place, one should be FRAMING it in the way one wants it to be. Pointing out the negative only reinforces the negative.

[Storm]

I could quibble about the phrasing, but I won't.

For me, the 7 Principles sum it up nicely, with a huge emphasis on the seventh:

There are seven principles which Unitarian Universalist congregations affirm and promote:

• The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
• Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
• Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
• A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
• The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
• The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
• Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

[fantôme profane]

“God” is no different than any other symbol, it stands for what human beings decide it stands for. And whatever it stands for, it is as you say, a powerful concept.

One thing that “God” very often stands for (among many other things) is ultimate authority. Whatever values humans attribute to “God”, once attributed become unquestionable. Once a human attributes a human idea to “God” that human idea suddenly becomes divine. And then what human reason, logic, evidence, understanding can possibly argue against a divine idea. Even human emotion, love, compassion, or human intuition become powerless when matched against what has become “what God stands for”. This is what makes it such a powerful concept. And like anything that is that powerful it can be very dangerous.

It is true that people often attribute things like universal love and compassion to “God”. But I would suggest that these ideas are so powerful on their own that they don’t need to be “elevated” to divine status, they are already there without “God”. Compare these ideas with the petty concepts of judgment, discrimination, selfishness, bigotry. How can such little ideas compete with universal love? The answer is “God”. Once these little ideas are attributed to “God” they gain the status that I believe love and compassion already have without “God”.

[Kungfuzed]

Would the answer be any different if someone were to ask "What do I stand for?" rather than "What does God stand for?".

[michel]

Originally Posted by Kungfuzed

Would the answer be any different if someone were to ask "What do I stand for?" rather than "What does God stand for?".

Only to a secularist!

[Storm]

Originally Posted by Kungfuzed

Would the answer be any different if someone were to ask "What do I stand for?" rather than "What does God stand for?".

It would be for me.

[fantôme profane]

Originally Posted by Kungfuzed

Would the answer be any different if someone were to ask "What do I stand for?" rather than "What does God stand for?".

The difference is that you will be required to take personal responsibility for what you stand for. Nobody is responsible for what “God” stands for, not even “God”.