isa (as) /jesus(pbuh)

[Peace]

Originally Posted by not4me

Excellent post my very dear and beloved sister, Peace. Jazaki Allahu khayran my dear.

Thank you my sweet dear sister
wa anti min alhli al jazaa'!

[Peace]

Originally Posted by ayani

you quote 9:30. i do not believe God would curse Christians for saying Jesus is God's Son. many places in the Bible, Abu, men are called sons of God, and the Quran is silent on that fact.

Again the Bible is corrupted and you cannot trust at all what is written there.

Originally Posted by ayani

why would God curse the likes of Saint Francis, Mother Teresa, Desmond Tutu and others, for saying Jesus is His Son? perhaps Muhammad may have wished God's curse upon them, but God has clearly blessed and guided countless Christians in their faith and lives who believe that Jesus is in some true and meaningful way, God's Son.

How come you know that they are blessed and guided, have you visited them in Paradise?

Originally Posted by ayani

if one knows only about Jesus from the Quran, that is truly not sufficient. you have yet to answer the question- if it's ok for Muslims to ask the Christians and Jews about these messengers, and if they are of course going to look in their own scriptures, why not as a Muslim go to these scriptures to learn more about Jesus? and if the scriptures are so corrupted, why give the green light to refer to them for clarification?

Again give us the proof from the Quran where it is stated that it is ok to refer to the Bible for clarification.

Originally Posted by ayani

as a Christian, i do not follow Muhammad, nor the Quran. Jesus did not come bearing scripture, but His life. His apostles write about His life, teachings, and death and resurrection in the Gospels. Paul did not write the Gospels- he wrote later letters to early churches. Jesus' apostles wrote the four Gospels, putting to pen the life and teachings of Jesus. i look to Jesus first, to His example, and teachings, and life. i do trust the Bible to read about Jesus- and while i do realize that yes, the Gospels have been edited in small places here and there, for example the Johanite comma, and having as a Muslim studied Judaic belief, and early church history, i do not call myself a trinitarian Christian- in spite of all of this, i find Jesus a greater, more trustworthy, humble, and Godly messenger, and Lord.

Very complicated and confusing.

Originally Posted by ayani

notwithstanding, i do trust what the Gospels say about Jesus, and i do trust that when Jesus said that He would send someone ahead of Him, that He was not talking about Muhammad, but about God's Holy Spirit. in fact, the Gosple says exactly that a few sentences later. many Muslims look to the Gospels to support the claims of prophet-hood given by Muhammad, but they do not look further, to scan the actual words and message of Jesus.

You shall know the truth sooner or later.

Originally Posted by ayani

with all that i have read about Christianity, critical of the faith and of its texts, as a Muslim, i have ultimately come back to the message and person of Jesus. i have decided to follow Him, and in this way, to respect Him. many Muslims would say that by reading the Gospels at all, i do Him a great dis-service. i disagree. i choose to look to the original sources about His life, not words spoken about Him by someone who came centuries later- and while the Quran does say many true things about Jesus- that His followers were compassionate, the He was a humble servant, etc. it ultimately takes the focus off of Him. and if i wish to focus on Him and follow Him, i can not follow the Quran.

As you want, to you your religion and to us ours, Islam.
Excuse me ayani but I cannot help myself from saying “I am really sorry for you!”.

Peace

[ayani]

well, i am not sorry, Peace. nor do i feel sorry.

i feel blessed, free, and thankful. if you find my decision to follow in the example and teachings of Jesus Christ confusing, it may be helpful for you to look to the original Gospels themselves, and read what He has done and said. i have read the Quran, after all. as a Muslim, i had taken the time to learn how to read and write Arabic, pray in Arabic, tie a headscarf, etc. could a Muslim not take the time to read the Gospels?

in 5:47 of the Quran, the Quran asks Christians to judge by the Gospels (the scripture they already possess). ok. if that is permissible, for a Christian to judge the Quran based upon the Gospels, then surely the Gospels must be clear enough to draw guidance, truth, and judgment from. in 5:71 it asks the Jews and Christians to stand fast by their own scriptures, before then asking them to trust the Quran. but how can the Jew or Christian, stand fast by the Torah and the Gospel, if the Torah and the Gospel have been corrupted or abrogated?

and why would a Christian stand up for the Quran, when it says things contradicting Jesus' teachings and example to His disciples as found within the Gospels, Gospels which Christians are asked to read and adhere to?

10:94 gives Muslims permission to ask the Jews and Christians about their faiths, if they doubt the Quran. and if one asks a Jew or Christian, naturally that Jew or Christian will go to the Torah, or to the Bible. if that is ok and if the Quran tells Muslims to *ask*, how truly corrupt could these scriptures be, if God is asking Muslims to ask Jews and Christians what their own texts say?

as i have pointed out, there are clear differences between Jesus life and teachings, and Muhammad's life and teachings. Muhammad, in his teachings through the Quran (which i think everyone would agree he taught to his followers, regardless of where we believe it originated), and in his life's example. therefor, for a Christian, Muhammad can not confirm the Gospels if he acts or teaches in ways that are contrary to Jesus' teachings and living example.

i have found the way to God through Jesus, His Son. through His living example, teachings, and the promises He has fulfilled. i do feel peaceful, and having come from Islam to Christ, and having studied the Quran, and now studying the Gospels, i feel that, by God's grace, i am making the right decision, day by day.

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by ayani

i feel blessed, free, and thankful.

Amen sister!

“I am the way, the truth and the life” (John 14:6)

[ayani]

there are other glaring contradictions between Christianity and Islam i would like to point out. for some they may sound small, but if the Quran is truly from God, the same God who is omniscient and the God of Jews and Christians and all peoples, they beg attention.

look at 9:111 in the Quran.
Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

however, no where in Jesus' message in the Gospels does He bind His followers in a covenant that involves slaying. on the contrary, by His own example, He did not even fight to save His own life, knowing that God would raise Him up again, going to the cross in obedience to God's will. if Christians are to be Christ-like, we must do the same in selflessness and humility. so clearly there's a contradiction here- no where in the Gospels does it command anyone to slay anyone else. Jesus prophesies about persecution, division, conflict, and death for His name- but it is Christians who will suffer, not who will cause the suffering.

also, look closely at 5:73 in the Quran. here is what is says :

Indeed, the truth deny they who say, "Behold, Allah is the third of a trinity" - seeing that there is no deity whatever save the One Allah. And unless they desist from this their assertion, grievous suffering is bound to befall such of them as are bent on denying the truth.

throughout the Quran, the Christian claim that Jesus is God is firmly rejected, to the point of calling down God's curse upon Christians who believe in this. (9:30) it is only the Christian belief that Jesus is God which is condemned or even referred to- while the trinity is mentioned, the Quran is completely silent on the specific issue of God's Holy Spirit being referred to as a person of the trinity. so the "third of three" here must refer to Jesus being set up as a partner to God, the only such "blasphemy" the Quran repeatedly acknowledges in reference to the trinity, or to the deification of Christ.

however, any Christian can tell you that Jesus is the second, not the third person of the trinity. this verse "should" read "Behold, God is the second of three", in order to accurately refer to trinitarian Christians' beliefs about Jesus.

it begs the question, wouldn't God know what His own people believe about Him, whether this belief is true or not? why the error? why would God blunder the specifics of trinitarian belief?

[3.14]

Originally Posted by Wandered Off

I'm reminded one of the avatars MidnightBlue had for a while: "Jesus loves you, but I'm his favorite."

i saw another one of those it said
jesus might love you, but he's screwing me
and
jesus love you when you screw him

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by ayani

could a Muslim not take the time to read the Gospels?

Dear ayani, you are still not getting the point. When a prophet comes from Allah, people must follow him. If Isa came while Moses was still alive, Moses would have followed Isa, and Isa was on earth when Mohammed was sent to the worlds, Isa would have followed Mohammed for certain. So, it doesn't matter whether we had a look in the so called gospel today or not, because the Quran is already there, and Mohammed "peace be upon him" has delivered the message.

in 5:47 of the Quran, the Quran asks Christians to judge by the Gospels (the scripture they already possess). ok. if that is permissible, for a Christian to judge the Quran based upon the Gospels, then surely the Gospels must be clear enough to draw guidance, truth, and judgment from. in 5:71 it asks the Jews and Christians to stand fast by their own scriptures, before then asking them to trust the Quran. but how can the Jew or Christian, stand fast by the Torah and the Gospel, if the Torah and the Gospel have been corrupted or abrogated?

Please ayani, you know better than me that the bible has been chanaging regularly since ever it existed, so it's impossible that the gospel you have today is the same as before. Not to mention the so many different kind of bibles many sects do have today.

and why would a Christian stand up for the Quran, when it says things contradicting Jesus' teachings and example to His disciples as found within the Gospels, Gospels which Christians are asked to read and adhere to?

Because the gospel has changed and been compiled in what people call today, the holy bible.

10:94 gives Muslims permission to ask the Jews and Christians about their faiths, if they doubt the Quran. and if one asks a Jew or Christian, naturally that Jew or Christian will go to the Torah, or to the Bible. if that is ok and if the Quran tells Muslims to *ask*, how truly corrupt could these scriptures be, if God is asking Muslims to ask Jews and Christians what their own texts say?

I answered that already.

as i have pointed out, there are clear differences between Jesus life and teachings, and Muhammad's life and teachings. Muhammad, in his teachings through the Quran (which i think everyone would agree he taught to his followers, regardless of where we believe it originated), and in his life's example. therefor, for a Christian, Muhammad can not confirm the Gospels if he acts or teaches in ways that are contrary to Jesus' teachings and living example.

Mohammed never taught against Allah\s teaching, and you don't know what Isa has taught, because not all what they say about him is true.

Nevertheless, the gospel today still hold some true, and you can check it out in this link below, so read it please:

Mohamed (PBUH) in the bible !!!

i have found the way to God through Jesus, His Son. through His living example, teachings, and the promises He has fulfilled. i do feel peaceful, and having come from Islam to Christ, and having studied the Quran, and now studying the Gospels, i feel that, by God's grace, i am making the right decision, day by day.

This life is a journey, and i hope we all will end making the right choices in our lives at the end, to be happy in this life, and the hereafter insha'Allah.