Originally Posted by Dirty Penguin
Show me in the original greek where it says "Lord God". I'll give you a hint.....It doesn't. It depends on what greek version your translating from. This is why people say your book is corrupted. Translators playing silly games like this fooling people such as yourself. Examining multiple greek versions not all of them said "Lord God" some of them just said "Lord."
All it shows here, and might I remind you..you keep quoting this verse, is that you really don't understand Revelation. Multiple "people" are speaking here or are being spoken of (described) in this book. We've gone through a lot of this in another thread. It is commonly agreed that in that book "The Lamb" is explicitly in reference to Yeshua The Messiah. If this is true, and scholars all agree it is, then there is a fundamental difference than Yeshua (The Lamb) and God (Who sits on the throne receiving praise).
Revelation 1:1-2
1 This is a revelation from Yeshua the Messiah, which God gave him concerning the events that will happen soon. An angel was sent to God's servant John so that John could share the revelation with God's other servants.
If Yeshua is God then after the supposed ascension he should not be viewed as two beings. John receives (the revelation) FROM Yeshua, (NOT GOD)...but this revelation was GIVEN to Yeshua FROM God concerning FUTURE events. One being doing the giving and another is receiving. God does not have to give something to himself. It is illogical.
2 John faithfully reported the word of God and the testimony of Yeshua the Messiah--everything he saw.
John reports the word of God and Yeshua testifies (confirms or validates) it.
Rev. 3:12
All who are victorious will become pillars in the Temple of my God, and they will never have to leave it. And I will write my God's name on them, and they will be citizens in the city of my God--the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven from my God. And they will have my new name inscribed upon them.
The verses above are strictly related to Yeshua (The Lamb). This is where he explicitly informs John he has a god. If he is ascended then there should be no distinction. He should be simply referred to as God. Explain to me...at this point, how God can have a god?
Revelation 4:2 and 9-11
2 And instantly I was in the Spirit, and I saw a throne in heaven and someone sitting on it!
9 Whenever the living beings give glory and honor and thanks to the one sitting on the throne, the one who lives forever and ever,
10 the twenty-four elders fall down and worship the one who lives forever and ever. And they lay their crowns before the throne and say,
11 "You are worthy, O Lord our God, to receive glory and honor and power. For you created everything, and it is for your pleasure that they exist and were created."
Now remember God in verse 4:11 above? God (IS) worthy so let's move a little forward;
Revelation 5:1-4
1 And I saw a scroll in the right hand of the one who was sitting on the throne. There was writing on the inside and the outside of the scroll, and it was sealed with seven seals.
Remember verse 4:2 above? God is sitting on the throne.
2 And I saw a strong angel, who shouted with a loud voice: "Who is worthy to break the seals on this scroll and unroll it?
Remember verse 4:11 above? God is worthy...so out of respect none of his creation would ever dare question his worthiness to open something that he had in his possession that he most likely sealed himself. Remember, he is omnipotent.
3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll and read it.
Surely John thought God was capable of accomplishing this task? The scroll was not for God to open but some one other than God who was worthy was to open the seals.
4 Then I wept because no one could be found who was worthy to open the scroll and read it.
God had the scroll in his hand. Surely there was no need of this if everyone knew he was worthy. Again, that's because he was entrusting some one else worthy enough to open the seals. Some one other than himself.
5 But one of the twenty-four elders said to me, "Stop weeping! Look, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the heir to David's throne, has conquered. He is worthy to open the scroll and break its seven seals."
As you can clearly see, a reference to some one else is mentioned worthy of opening the seals......not the one on the throne (God).
Wait, wait....it gets better......;
Revelation 5:7
7 He stepped forward and took the scroll from the right hand of the one sitting on the throne.
Remember Rev. 4:2 above? God is the one the throne and in Rev. 5:7 "The Lamb" is the one who comes forward and takes the scroll from the hand of his god. Also note that (The Lamb) was not sitting on the throne. He was in the crowd with the rest of God's creation.
So I must state the "obvious" and repeat myself......Yeshua is not God and in addition you don't understand the book you quote from.....
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07-02-2008, 11:18 AM
Drummers ROCK!!!
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