The value of this life? (reject, salvation, beliefs, choice)

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by logician

By definition when you die, you're dead.

And... what defines "dead"?

[Katzpur]

I have a question, Rob. When you talk about a ratio between this life and the next, are you talking in terms of length of duration or significance of value? This sounds like an interesting topic, but I'm not quite sure what you're asking.

[Rolling_Stone]

Originally Posted by robtex

For those you of that believe in an afterlife I wanted to construct some premises and than if you find merit in them (I am guessing some will some won't ) ask you a questions:

Premises:

1) There is an after-life

2) The Afterlife is longer in duration than this life by a large margin, at least more than double and for many of your beliefs is indefinite in duration

3) The afterlife in comparison to this life is much less difficult in terms of hardships or sufferings or in many of your belief systems has no hardships or sufferings

4) The current barrier to your existence in the afterlife if your existence in this life. Once this life is concluded you have the opportunity to experience life in the afterlife.

If some or all of these four premises are true in your religious belief I have four questions:

1) In terms of ratio you assign to this life in comparison to the after-life if 1:1 was to say they are equal and 2:1 was to say the value of one was twice that of the latter. What is the ratio value you assign in ratio of each?

2) Based on your answer of number 1 if the afterlife received a ratio of equal or higher than 2:1 in comparison to this life, and you find merit in any of the premise 2-4 in accordance to your beliefs Why do you see a need to exist in this life at all?

3) If the answer is not a personal choice to question # 2 but instead "God's will" or some equivalent there of what is your theory on why God would want you to lived an existence of diminished value before living in the after-life?

4) If you accept premise # 1 and feel that those who do not accept your deity or any deity (atheists and agnostics) and further feel that their rejection will deny them access to the afterlife do you feel their existence in this life has less value than that of a believers because they will not make the transition to the better afterlife? If so why if not why not?

Why do you care what "believers" believe, Robtex? You're biased. The structure of your OP is that of someone too busy looking at the finger to see where the finger is pointing.

[robtex]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I have a question, Rob. When you talk about a ratio between this life and the next, are you talking in terms of length of duration or significance of value? This sounds like an interesting topic, but I'm not quite sure what you're asking.

I am asking you to quality this life compared to the afterlife. I realize most theists never really think it through in quantifying terms so I broke it down into steps for you. Using ratios one can get a basic picture of the value you asses for this life as compared to the next life in accordance with your beliefs.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by robtex

1) In terms of ratio you assign to this life in comparison to the after-life if 1:1 was to say they are equal and 2:1 was to say the value of one was twice that of the latter. What is the ratio value you assign in ratio of each?

I'm still not sure what you're asking. In terms of duration, this life is miniscule in comparison to the afterlife. Of course the Latter-day Saints would also add a pre-mortal period of existance to the equation so for us, this life is even shorter in comparsion than it is to mainstream Christians. I imagine a string that extends to my left for billions of years and to my right literally forever. I see this life as being a dot somewhere along that string, to the left of the middle, although I couldn't tell you exactly where it falls.

2) Based on your answer of number 1 if the afterlife received a ratio of equal or higher than 2:1 in comparison to this life, and you find merit in any of the premise 2-4 in accordance to your beliefs Why do you see a need to exist in this life at all?

Well, as you may or may not know, I believe that God is a physical being with a human form. Unlike us, however, His body is immortal and perfect. It is not subject to disease, death, decay, injury or anything like that. Latter-day Saints believe that in our pre-mortal existance, we knew God personally and that He knew each of us. We wanted to be like Him and He wanted this for us. The only way for us to attain this goal was for us to experience mortality, to gain a physical body, to be subject to both good and evil, pleasure and pain, sickness and health, etc. We would have to be separated from Him for a period of time that might be as long as 100 years or more. During this time, we would be able to learn to make choices that would enable us to grow and progress. Our faith and trust in Him would be tested and mortality would be something akin to a refiner's fire. Through this process, we would be able to accomplish a big part of what He knew would be necessary for our eternal progression. Of course Mormons don't believe that this life is the only part of our existance that matters, either. We believe that there will be a period of time between a person's death and his ultimate resurrection when he will continue to learn and grow. So the afterlife is not determined solely by our performance in this life, but by how valiant we were in our pre-mortal life and how far we can progress between death and our resurrection as well.

I don't know if this is what you were looking for at all. If I missed your point completely, please tell me.

[Heneni]

1) There is an after-life

Yes, there is and there was one before as well.

2) The Afterlife is longer in duration than this life by a large margin, at least more than double and for many of your beliefs is indefinite in duration

Eternal life is eternal, it has a start and an end, like a loop, it never stops being, but it remains cyclic.

3) The afterlife in comparison to this life is much less difficult in terms of hardships or sufferings or in many of your belief systems has no hardships or sufferings

Hardships and suffering is for this earth, which i call hell. The after life has no suffering and no harships because that which causes it has been rooted out of the ones that inherit eternal life with god.

4) The current barrier to your existence in the afterlife if your existence in this life. Once this life is concluded you have the opportunity to experience life in the afterlife.

This life is part of enternal life, but this one is bound by time. My spirit is still existing as it has before and will always exist. This earth is what god created to make those that love him, recover from their fall from glory, and return to heaven where they came from. If you die today, you will return tomorrow, if god so wishes. When i die, i dont want to return, and hence the apostel paul called it a race, in which we run to obtain the prize, and that prize i believe is to return to god rather than to return to paradise and then to return to earth.

If some or all of these four premises are true in your religious belief I have four questions:

1) In terms of ratio you assign to this life in comparison to the after-life if 1:1 was to say they are equal and 2:1 was to say the value of one was twice that of the latter. What is the ratio value you assign in ratio of each?

I dont think ratio's can be applied here, the after life seems long because we call it eternal, but it is called eternal because it is not subject to time. It is possible for creatures to exist within a universe where there is time, yet not be bound or subject to it.

2) Based on your answer of number 1 if the afterlife received a ratio of equal or higher than 2:1 in comparison to this life, and you find merit in any of the premise 2-4 in accordance to your beliefs Why do you see a need to exist in this life at all?

The need to exist in this life, is because if i didnt i would not have the opportunity to return back to heaven.

) If the answer is not a personal choice to question # 2 but instead "God's will" or some equivalent there of what is your theory on why God would want you to lived an existence of diminished value before living in the after-life?

God created all his beings with the ability to turn against him if they so wished. Any person that is on this planet, did exactly that, rebelled, before this earth was even created, and hence he came to save us out of this world, to allow us to return back to heaven. The fact that i exist on this planet is called mercy, i deserved much worse for rebelling against god.

I do not believe that those who do not believe in god is less 'worthy' of an afterlife, we all have an afterlife whether we realise it or not. I believe that jesus came to save the world, and all the spirits, whether they were on this earth, or in sheol at the time he died.I believe that it was then, at the moment of the cross, that we all made our choices, and hence we are living out that choice and are testifying to it as we live and walk on this earth. Salvation is not a coincidence, and if someone dies without hearing the gospel, it does not change whether they are saved or not. On the cross jesus drew all men unto him, and the choice was made then. There is nothing that can change any of that, the only thing we can improve on is the quality of the life we live for god. I dont think it is a coincidence that some dont believe. Hence what christians believe is their saviour others believe to be their foolishness. If some thought it foolishnes to trust in jesus to save them out of darkness to get them back into the kingdom of light, they will still think so today.

Heneni

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Heneni

Yes, there is and there was one before as well.

You are the only non-LDS Christian I have ever heard make such a statement. Obviously, I am curious as to why you believe this.