Book of Mormon a copycat of the Holy Bible? (Jesus Christ, reject)

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by misanthropic_clown

We have covered this topic previously. Our opinions ultimately differ because in your view, there is just the idea of salvation; that all-or-nothing approach to the afterlife.

The Mormon view is more complex. The foundation of salvation is through the atonement of Christ, which is a gift freely given to all people. With this gift, all people can be resurrected and obtain a degree of glory.

Up to that point our belief is absolutely congruent with yours. We go further however.

We believe that there are many degrees of glory that a person can obtain on top of the foundation of Christ's atoning sacrifice. This allows differentiation between those who have acted righteously, and those who have not.

You seem to see this as insulting Christ's atoning sacrifice. It only is if you don't get the sense of proportions right.

Christ delivered us from a certain fate in hell to a degree of glory that Joseph Smith said people would kill themselves to get there if they knew it was there waiting. That's a big leap. The ability of our good works to raise us to a higher degree of glory is a smaller feat, but no less necessary for a person to be considered righteous.

As always, thank you for your kind and informative postings. Do you mind addressing the opening thread and answering the question? If you read Ephesians 2:8-9 together with Ephesians 2:10, you will see that those who have been saved by grace alone through faith alone by the person and work of Christ alone... are enabled by the grace of God to walk in the works God prepared for them to do with the correct motive which glorifies God alone. It removes the temptation to boast in the flesh. Self-righteousness is the sin of all religious people. God enables us through His truth to humble the flesh and allows us to see the greatness of the person and work of Christ with greater clarity to the praise of His glorious grace (Eph 2). I believe man's primary purpose in this life and the next is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. It's really not about us (man-centered theology); life's really about the glorious and wonderful God (God-centered theology) ... beholding, magnifying, enjoying the glory of God today and foverever...rejoicing and enjoying God as we were designed for prior to the fall. We were designed to recieve pleasure in God because He is the ultimate source of pleasure to the praise of His glorious grace. When we grow in this understanding, we grow in worship in Him alone, and are enabled to see the idols in our hearts which are lies in our lives.

Thanks,
Your friend Fish-Hunter

Ephesians 2:8-10:
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

1 Corinthians 10:31:
So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

[misanthropic_clown]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

Ephesians 2:8-10:
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

I tried to explain the sense of proportion to explain away any idea there is a sense of pride to be had, but I will try to explain better

Let's say Christ's part in assuring that we do not end up dead forever, or in hell, is akin to pulling us out of the Grand Canyon. Mormon belief in good works would be like climbing a hill in comparison. It would be a rather foolish man who considers his getting up the hill an impressive feat when he has just been plucked up from such a depth.

Likewise it would be a misapplication of the doctrine of good works to assume it has got us particularly far, and as such we cannot be prideful about it. We couldn't even get to the hill if we hadn't been pulled out of the canyon first, just as our good works serve us nothing without Christ's atonement.

I still think it is important to climb the hill, however, even if just to show a level of gratitude. To do our best to get as high as possible is a way of showing appreciation, just as throwing ourselves back in to the canyon would be very foolish indeed.

Doing good works is a necessary and good thing in the eyes of God, provided we remember what proportion our contribution alone is.

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. - John 14:6

I find it rather interesting how you have the audacity to present this verse after all the time you have spent here on RF trying to shove your opinion of Paul's OPINION down everyones throat.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

Please go back to the opening thread and try to give me your honest answer. I think the Mormon scriptures posted in comparison to the Scriptures from the Bible allows all non-Christians to answer obejectively and honestly.

I think so too. So what is your response to my objective and honest answer? It's post number 3, in case you didn't see it.

[trinity2359]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

Quick question to add perspective to the issue. Does the Roman Catholic Magestrium (Pope and bishops in communion with him) consider Mormons to be their Christian brothers and sisters in Christ? I'm not looking for your personal opinion, but I asking for the official Roman Catholic position in regards to Mormons as being Christians or not (united to Christ). If the Roman Catholic Magestrium does not consider Mormons to be your brothers and sisters in Christ, why would you personally "care less" if the gospel found in the Book of Mormon is different that the gospel found in the Bible?

The Roman Catholic Church does not recognize the baptism of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as in the trinitarian formula. Those who convert to Catholicism would require a Catholic baptism and confirmation.

Catholics don't really have an 'us vs. them' mentality. We, as the Mormons do incidentally, that all faiths have some truth to them--the question is who has the 'fullness of the Gospel'. Those who answer that question to their satisfaction, join the resulting faith.

God bless.

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by misanthropic_clown

I tried to explain the sense of proportion to explain away any idea there is a sense of pride to be had, but I will try to explain better

Let's say Christ's part in assuring that we do not end up dead forever, or in hell, is akin to pulling us out of the Grand Canyon. Mormon belief in good works would be like climbing a hill in comparison. It would be a rather foolish man who considers his getting up the hill an impressive feat when he has just been plucked up from such a depth.

Likewise it would be a misapplication of the doctrine of good works to assume it has got us particularly far, and as such we cannot be prideful about it. We couldn't even get to the hill if we hadn't been pulled out of the canyon first, just as our good works serve us nothing without Christ's atonement.

I still think it is important to climb the hill, however, even if just to show a level of gratitude. To do our best to get as high as possible is a way of showing appreciation, just as throwing ourselves back in to the canyon would be very foolish indeed.

Doing good works is a necessary and good thing in the eyes of God, provided we remember what proportion our contribution alone is.

This is very interesting and informative. However, could you please respond to the original posting regarding the Book of Mormon being a copycat of the Bible with significant changes that creates a different gospel?

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by trinity2359

The Roman Catholic Church does not recognize the baptism of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as in the trinitarian formula. Those who convert to Catholicism would require a Catholic baptism and confirmation.

Catholics don't really have an 'us vs. them' mentality. We, as the Mormons do incidentally, that all faiths have some truth to them--the question is who has the 'fullness of the Gospel'. Those who answer that question to their satisfaction, join the resulting faith.

God bless.

Okay, contrast your information with Protestant Christians who now worships as a Roman Catholic Christian. I do not believe that the Catholic Magestrium would require the Protestant Christian to be re-baptized to join the Catholic Church, right? If I am right, and the Catholic Church requires the Mormon converting to Roman Catholic Christianity to be baptized, then the Catholic Magestrium is saying that the Mormon was never united to Christ in contrast to the Protestant Christian convert who has already been united to Christ. Do you follow my point? The Trinity is an essential of the Historical Christian Faith that is a non-negotiable of being Christian. In addition to the trinity, the deity of Christ is also an essential to the Christian Faith. The Mormon Church denies the Triune God and the deity of Jesus Christ .

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by trinity2359

Catholics don't really have an 'us vs. them' mentality. We, as the Mormons do incidentally, that all faiths have some truth to them--the question is who has the 'fullness of the Gospel'. Those who answer that question to their satisfaction, join the resulting faith.

Yeah, and Catholics are also smart enough to know that Paul did not mean "good works are useless; don't do them and fight with anyone who does" when he said you're saved by grace alone.