Which part of the God Delusion did you find most offensive? (beliefs, experience)

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by BalanceFx

On a more serious note it was theist who flew planes into our tower because of their particular theist beliefs.

Who advocates that?

There are holy wars being fought even today of religious differences.

Holy Crusades, The holocaust, Witch hunts.... All theists. Possibly deranged and distorted theist views but done in the name of religion. People die for and as a result of theist beliefs. People kill for their beliefs. (9/11 case in point... suicide bombers - case in point.)

If these people dont sound confused then perhaps we need to address by what you would refer to as being not confused.

No offense, but the beliefs of non-theists and atheists also drive them as strongly to kill.

I was referring to Dawkins' disregard or ignorance as to what myth represents. Those theists whom he sets himself against, who mistake the image of God in the Bible for 'God' through misunderstanding or ignorance of the intent of that image, have less excuse than this aparently well-researched author.

[BalanceFx]

Originally Posted by Willamena

No offense, but the beliefs of non-theists and atheists also drive them as strongly to kill.

Can you name a few religious reasons that may drive an atheist to kill because of their religious beleifs?

On a more serious note it was theist who flew planes into our tower because of their particular theist beliefs.

Who advocates that?

There are holy wars being fought even today of religious differences.

Holy Crusades, The holocaust, Witch hunts.... All theists. Possibly deranged and distorted theist views but done in the name of religion. People die for and as a result of theist beliefs. People kill for their beliefs. (9/11 case in point... suicide bombers - case in point.)

If these people dont sound confused then perhaps we need to address by what you would refer to as being not confused.

[BalanceFx]

Originally Posted by Rolling_Stone

Some more than others. In this politically correct climate, I think you should know better than to make such a sweeping statement and say it is true in all cases. It's like me saying a particular race is inferior because a disproportionate number drop out of school.

It was sarcasm. I never said it was true in all cases. I even said its probably a distorted and deranged view.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by BalanceFx

Can you name a few religious reasons that may drive an atheist to kill because of their religious beleifs?

I think you mistook what I intended to say. I meant that the beliefs that drive people to kill are not exclusive to theists.

Originally Posted by BalanceFx

On a more serious note it was theist who flew planes into our tower because of their particular theist beliefs.

Who advocates that?

Other than the individual, I don't know.

Originally Posted by BalanceFx

There are holy wars being fought even today of religious differences.

Holy Crusades, The holocaust, Witch hunts.... All theists. Possibly deranged and distorted theist views but done in the name of religion. People die for and as a result of theist beliefs. People kill for their beliefs. (9/11 case in point... suicide bombers - case in point.)

If these people dont sound confused then perhaps we need to address by what you would refer to as being not confused.

Atheists who kill also kill for their beliefs. Everyone has beliefs.

I addressed what I meant by Dawkins' confusion earlier.

[Rolling_Stone]

Originally Posted by BalanceFx

Can you name a few religious reasons that may drive an atheist to kill because of their religious beleifs?

Nazism, Communism, Fascism. Look at N. Korea, too.

On a more serious note it was theist who flew planes into our tower because of their particular theist beliefs.

So what? Religion, real religion, isn't about beliefs.

Holy Crusades, The holocaust, Witch hunts.... All theists. Possibly deranged and distorted theist views but done in the name of religion. People die for and as a result of theist beliefs. People kill for their beliefs. (9/11 case in point... suicide bombers - case in point.)

If these people dont sound confused then perhaps we need to address by what you would refer to as being not confused

If you want to play tit-for-tat you will lose.

[BalanceFx]

Originally Posted by Willamena

I think you mistook what I intended to say. I meant that the beliefs that drive people to kill are not exclusive to theists.
Other than the individual, I don't know.
Atheists who kill also kill for their beliefs. Everyone has beliefs.
I addressed what I meant by Dawkins' confusion earlier.

Originally Posted by The God Delusion

The teachings of 'moderate' religion, though not extremist in themselves, are an open invitation to extremism. It might be said that there is nothing special about religious faith here. Patriotic love of country or ethnic group can also make the world safe for its own version of extremism, can't it? Yes it can, as with the kamikazes in Japan and the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka. But religious faith is an especially potent silencer of rational calculation, which usually seems to trump all others. This is mostly, I suspect, because of the easy and beguiling promise that death is not the end, and that a martyr's heaven is especially glorious. But it is also partly because it discourages questioning, by its very nature. Christianity, just as much as Islam, teaches children that unquestioned faith is a virtue.

Chapter 8 has some great arguments against religion while chapter 9 delves into the effect on the child of religion.


Dawkins is quite outspoken in the matter. Religion teaches to be satisfied with faith and is a bane to science.


I have never objected to a personal religion since its your choice and you have a right to it. I will not subject myself to religion or my kids to a religious upbringing. Thats my choice.

[BalanceFx]

Originally Posted by Rolling_Stone

Nazism, Communism, Fascism. Look at N. Korea, too.
So what? Religion, real religion, isn't about beliefs.

First I'm not gonna debate your delusion that atheism had anything to do with nazism, communism or fascism. Second you are parroting that delusion and have no original thoughts on the subject. It has been debunked more times then you can cut and paste it. (It is even addressed in the god delusion and in interviews by dawkins)

Originally Posted by Rolling_Stone

If you want to play tit-for-tat you will lose.

Finally I will lose what? Lose to convincing you that you erroneously believe Atheism is the core of nazism, communism and fascism? I don't have to convince you of anything. You decided for yourself. You didn't do any research, you don't have any facts and have a general feeling that your right. You can keep that feeling and feeling that way... also your right (as in human right... not to be confused with any kind of correctness).

[Rolling_Stone]

Originally Posted by BalanceFx

First I'm not gonna debate your delusion that atheism had anything to do with nazism, communism or fascism.

I don't blame you. It is, after all, not about what one believes, but relationship and what affords a better map.

(I find your comments juvenile. Most people have sense enough to know that something said to be done in the name of religion doesn't make it so. Politics and power--secularism, in other words--often use religion as an excuse.)

[fantôme profane]

Originally Posted by Rolling_Stone

Nazism, Communism, Fascism. Look at N. Korea, too.

But the common link here is not atheism, it is unquestionable belief. These are all examples of regimes where people were imprisoned, tortured and killed just for expressing ideas that were different from those who had the power. I see these examples often brought up to contrast other atrocities such as the inquisition, but to me they are examples of the same thing. People talk about doubt as if it were something to be avoided, but we can see what happens where doubt is not allowed. And it really doesn’t seem to matter if it is a theistic belief that people are not allowed to question, or an atheistic belief that people are not allowed to question, the result is the same.