Which part of the God Delusion did you find most offensive? (beliefs, experience)

[gnomon]

Originally Posted by *Paul*

Yes that's him, i've read some of his comments. I say so called because his thinking can not be shown to be any more free than a religious persons .

Yeah, the whole freethinker label is kind of off in my opinion. Like the bright label Dawkins and I believe Dennet as well adopted. Although it was adopted, at least some claim, to avoid the more controversial atheist label it came off as incredibly arrogant even among other atheists.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by gnomon

Sounds pretty liberal to me. Same process put forward when Stanton tried to change the culture in allowing more freedom for women, when DuBois and Douglas fought to alter the culture to allow recognition of Africans as humans, etcetera and so on. But for some reason, questioning faith in a religious belief is hands off.

You are equating people praying for peace with the oppression of women and African Americans. He wasn't reacting to people trying to limit BGLT rights. He wasn't reacting to people trying to require prayer in schools. He wasn't even reacting to the terrorists. He was reacting to people of different faiths uniting together in love and for peace, firmly rejecting the hatred that drove other people to kill in the name of their God.

The liberal tradition is not anti-religion. The liberal tradition is anti-oppression. Where religion has supported oppression, the liberal tradition has opposed it. There is nothing liberal about opposing people who are looking past their differences and praying for peace.

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by lilithu

You are equating people praying for peace with the oppression of women and African Americans. He wasn't reacting to people trying to limit BGLT rights. He wasn't reacting to people trying to require prayer in schools. He wasn't even reacting to the terrorists. He was reacting to people of different faiths uniting together in love and for peace, firmly rejecting the hatred that drove other people to kill in the name of their God.

The liberal tradition is not anti-religion. The liberal tradition is anti-oppression. Where religion has supported oppression, the liberal tradition has opposed it. There is nothing liberal about opposing people who are looking past their differences and praying for peace.

I think what he was saying is that it's kind of like people using more drugs to get rid of a bad trip. Religion caused the problem in the first place, so these people are turning to...religion for the solution. He's saying that the solution would be to take a hard look at religion to find the problem, not use more religion to cover up the problems.

[misanthropic_clown]

Originally Posted by mball1297

I think what he was saying is that it's kind of like people using more drugs to get rid of a bad trip. Religion caused the problem in the first place, so these people are turning to...religion for the solution. He's saying that the solution would be to take a hard look at religion to find the problem, not use more religion to cover up the problems.

But is it not the misapplication of drugs which gives you a bad trip?

Sorry, the metaphor doesn't stretch too well, but I think you can see the point.

[lilithu]

It wasn't religion that caused 9/11. It was fear and hated of "the Other." The solution is NOT to create another "Other."

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by misanthropic_clown

But is it not the misapplication of drugs which gives you a bad trip?

Sorry, the metaphor doesn't stretch too well, but I think you can see the point.

First of all, I wasn't necessarily agreeing with what he said, just trying to explain it.

Second, would you advocate using hard drugs, even though, when used properly, they aren't all that dangerous?

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by mball1297

I think what he was saying is that it's kind of like people using more drugs to get rid of a bad trip. Religion caused the problem in the first place, so these people are turning to...religion for the solution. He's saying that the solution would be to take a hard look at religion to find the problem, not use more religion to cover up the problems.

See, this is why religionists find the statement so offensive and anti-religionists see it as a non-biased statement of fact.

The latter start with the same assumption as he does.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by mball1297

Religion caused the problem in the first place, ...

That is absolute rubbish.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Jay

That is absolute rubbish.

I can't frubal you again, so you'll have to settle for a hug.