Which part of the God Delusion did you find most offensive? (beliefs, experience)

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by BalanceFx

I can generalize that a theist accepts that there is a god or he would be an atheist and I can accept they believe in revelation or they would be deist.

I know plenty of people who call themselves theists who do not believe in revelation. And even they do believe in revelation, they differ in their interpretations of what it means. You keep focusing on whether or not someone believes in god(s). The far more important question is what kind of god(s) the person believes in. And I don't mean is there one or twenty. I mean, what kinds of ideals do their concepts of god(s) uphold?

Originally Posted by BalanceFx

Also commonly they believe in the afterlife.

And also commonly they don't.

[BalanceFx]

Originally Posted by lilithu

Has it ever occurred to you that their motivation might also have been a hatred of the U.S. because the policies we've had regarding the Middle East for the last few decades? Our history of meddling? Our support for the Shah if Iran? The encroachment of Western materialism on the Islamic world?

You think that they flew planes into buildings in order to get 40 virgins because that's what the media told you. I'm not saying that it wasn't a motivating factor at all, but to focus on just that little part of it is both myopic and convenient.

It was 72 virgins and as I explained later they likely didn't believe they would get any virgins at all. Its just a popular western misconception which a few people explained to me in great detail after I posted that comment.

The wanted to be martyrs for completing the Jihad.

Nonetheless we know a lot more about the terrorists now then we did on 9/11. Are you disputing the invidividuals motivations or the people who trained them and gave them the orders?

The people who flew the planes were most definitely motivated by flawwed religious beliefs as our many suicide bombers. (Not all... Kamikazee pilots were motivated out of both desperation and nationalism.)

The people who motivated them and passed on the order were also most likely motivated by religion but at some point you will come to somebody not motivated by religion who may have the ideas and motivations you describe.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by BalanceFx

The wanted to be martyrs and to goto Jihad.

Nonetheless we know a lot more about the terrorists now then we did on 9/11. Are you disputing the invidividuals motivations or the people who trained them and gave them the orders?

The people who flew the planes were most definitely motivated by flawwed religious beliefs as our many suicide bombers. (Not all... Kamikazee pilots were motivated out of both desperation and nationalism.)

The people who motivated them and passed on the order were also most likely motivated by religion but at some point you will come to somebody not motivated by religion who may have the ideas and motivations you describe.

Really. You know for certain that the hijackers had no other motivation than just to be religious martyrs. And you know this how??

I forgot another very common motivation for suicide bombers - knowing that their family would be well compensated materially for their sacrifice. That's no small motivation in areas of severe economic depression, where the only assistance to families comes from terrorist organizations.

[Jaiket]

Originally Posted by BalanceFx

The wanted to be martyrs and to goto Jihad.

I've never witnessed jihad referenced as a place.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Jaiket

I've never witnessed jihad referenced as a place.

I took it as "want to go to war." But you know, you say jihad and it sounds scarier.

Even tho "jihad" actually means struggle, not holy war. And in Islam, the highest form of jihad is internal.

[BalanceFx]

Originally Posted by Jaiket

I've never witnessed jihad referenced as a place.

Its not. I was cutting and pasting from the other thread.

[BalanceFx]

Originally Posted by lilithu

Really. You know for certain that the hijackers had no other motivation than just to be religious martyrs. And you know this how??

I forgot another very common motivation for suicide bombers - knowing that their family would be well compensated materially for their sacrifice. That's no small motivation in areas of severe economic depression, where the only assistance to families comes from terrorist organizations.

Blah... Im not looking up the links to the 9/11 investigation. Suffice to say much has been released and they were religiously motivated. You don't believe me, you prove me wrong for once.

[Jaiket]

Originally Posted by BalanceFx

Its not. I was cutting and pasting from the other thread.

OK. I don't think it's something that's to be completed either. It's more like a struggle to improve yourself and your world...to be more like Allah. I think. That's off-topic though, innit.