Proselytism and Atheism (Jesus, follower, choice, experience, atheist)

[Azakel]

Originally Posted by crystalonyx

In the real world, Christian evangelism (along with some other religions) is a major problem, I don't believe I've ever seen an atheist proselytize, mainly because atheism is not a belief system, it's just a disbelief in one concept.

But in the real world it does happen. Just because Christians are known for doing it and doesn't mean Atheist don't do it. I have had to deal with both Christian proselytizing and Atheist do the something in there own way.

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by lilithu

Agree on all counts. It's human nature to want to exercise power over others if one can. We must resist. There are a few annoying proselytizing atheists who go out of their way to argue with and condescend toward theists, and it's spiteful. But all atheists should be able to live their lives fully expressing their own beliefs and values in public life, and if they are confronted with a belief that they think is harmful, they have both the right and the duty to say so.

Of course, if they do, certain theists will call them condescending, spiteful, proselytizing and immature.

Originally Posted by lilithu

(And before any proselytizing atheist tries to say it, no, a belief in God is not inherently harmful. Grow up.)

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by lilithu

I was not suggesting that atheists should not be welcome here. I was responding directly to logician's comment:

"The vast percentage of posts on these forums claim there is a god and push all sorts of god theories, yet I don't see you ranting about these people."

It's ridiculous to suggest that people should be criticized for posting their beliefs about god in a forum specifically dedicated to religion.

But you do feel comfortable criticizing atheists who post their beliefs about god in a forum specifically dedicated to religion, even though theists have no monopoly on religion and non-religious people are directly affected by religion.

It seems to me that there's a definite double standard at work -- especially when theists who have no problem when theists proselytize object so strongly to what they characterize as atheist proselytism.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by MidnightBlue

But you do feel comfortable criticizing atheists who post their beliefs about god in a forum specifically dedicated to religion, even though theists have no monopoly on religion and non-religious people are directly affected by religion.

I feel comfortable criticizing certain atheists who post their belief that there is not god over and over again in threads where that opinion is not relevant to the discussion, just as I feel comfortable criticizing certain theists who post their beliefs about their god in threads where that opinion is not relevant to the discussion. Again, you fail to make the distinction between a few people and the entire group.

Originally Posted by MidnightBlue

It seems to me that there's a definite double standard at work -- especially when theists who have no problem when theists proselytize object so strongly to what they characterize as atheist proselytism.

If there is a double standard here, it's that you don't notice when I object to theist proselytizing and only notice when I object to atheist proselytizing.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by MidnightBlue

Of course, if they do, certain theists will call them condescending, spiteful, proselytizing and immature.

I see, so in your opinion the only way that atheists can express their own values is by attacking someone else's beliefs as inherently harmful.

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by lilithu

If there is a double standard here, it's that you don't notice when I object to theist proselytizing and only notice when I object to atheist proselytizing.

Maybe, but I don't think so. You don't seem to have any strong objection to street preachers or door-to-door missionaries, for instance, and you even mentioned having convinced someone to check out his local UU congregation. But I don't want to put you on the defensive by making this about your attitudes.

If religious proselytism is ever permissible, then atheist proselytism ought to be permissible, too. And if it's not proselytism for theists to express their opinions (even if those opinions might be offensive to other theists or to non-theists), then it's not proselytism for atheists to express their opinions (even if those opinions might be offensive to theists or to other non-theists).

I'll tell you frankly that there are atheists on RF whose posts I find offensive -- not because they're strongly worded or opinionated, and not because they're dismissive of theism, but because they're poorly informed or poorly reasoned. I don't think it's any more offensive for atheists to be dismissive of theism, though, than it is for theists to be dismissive of atheism. I don't think it's any more offensive for atheists to assert their opinions than it is for theists to assert theirs. But there seems to be a feeling among some theists that religion is "their" territory, and that when atheists express an opinion on religion, and especially on theistic religion, they're intruding where they don't belong.

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by lilithu

I see, so in your opinion the only way that atheists can express their own values is by attacking someone else's beliefs as inherently harmful.

Do you think there are any beliefs that are inherently harmful? Do you think you should be allowed to say what they are?

[crystalonyx]

Atheists should have the same right to state their beliefs on these forums as theists, period.