The U.S. was not founded as a Christian nation. (Deists, America)

[logician]

For those of you who think otherwise, here are the words straight from our founding fathers mouths, in a treaty with Tripoli, drafted in 1796 by George Washington, and signed by John Adams in 1797:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion, as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmenl and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Let's face it, our founding fathers stood head and shoulders above our current crop of religious fanatics in government, in both wisdom and intelligence. We need more people like this in government.

[Popeyesays]

The founders were theists, not Christians.

Regards,
Scott

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

The founders were theists, not Christians.

Regards,
Scott

That's partly true. Some seem to have been deists.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by mball1297

That's partly true. Some seem to have been deists.

Can't speak for Scott but when I used the word "theist" I don't just mean classical theist. I mean anyone who accepts some type of concept of deity, which would include deist.

Altho I'm not sure what people mean when they say that many of the founding fathers were deists. My understanding of deism is the belief that God created the universe and then left it to run on its own, ie - no longer intervenes. But Jefferson clearly did not believe that even tho he's the one who most often gets called a deist. (Well, him and Thomas Paine.)

Back to the OP. The U.S. was not founded as a Christian nation. The fathers intended it to be broader than that. But they were still men of their times and a lot of "Christianity" crept in. Still, they laid down the principles for a secular nation because they wisely perceived this would be most beneficial to both church and state.

[logician]

"A professorship of theology should have no place in our institutions"

Thomas Jefferson.

As has been said, many of our founding fathers claimed to be deists, although as Dawkins has pointed out, they probably would be atheists in today's society given the environment they lived in at the time. Famous scientists who were or are de facto atheists are Albert Einstein, Carl Sagan, and Stephen Hawking, and of course, Dawkins is an atheist.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by logician

As has been said, many of our founding fathers claimed to be deists, although as Dawkins has pointed out, they probably would be atheists in today's society given the environment they lived in at the time. Famous scientists who were or are de facto atheists are Albert Einstein, Carl Sagan, and Stephen Hawking, and of course, Dawkins is an atheist.

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever. . . the Almighty has no attribute that can take side with us in such a contest."

- Thomas Jefferson

"God does not play dice with the universe."

- Albert Einstein

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by lilithu

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever. . . the Almighty has no attribute that can take side with us in such a contest."

- Thomas Jefferson

"God does not play dice with the universe."

- Albert Einstein

The second one is out of context. I don't remember the whole thing, I'd have to look it up, but Einstein, if a believer in anything, was a pantheist or panentheist.

There is also a thought that Jefferson and others showed outward belief i theism to keep up the pretense for the public. I'm not going to say whether it's right or wrong, but it's very possible.

[Azakel]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

The founders were theists, not Christians.

Regards,
Scott

He doesn't understand that there's a difference. He like to generalize all Theist.