The U.S. was not founded as a Christian nation. (Deists, America)

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by MidnightBlue

A man like Jefferson, who doesn't believe that Jesus was god and rejects all the miracles in the Bible, but still considers himself a Christian because he believes Jesus was a great teacher, is neither a hypocrite nor a coward. He is also not someone who would be considered a Christian by our present-day Evangelicals, but I would suggest that Jefferson is as good a judge of who a Christian is, as they are. It all depends on how you define "Christian."

I have to agree with logician here that I don't think Jefferson considered himself "Christian."

Originally Posted by MidnightBlue

What's certain is that the people who are always saying the U.S. was founded as a Christian nation also define Christianity in a way that excludes most of the leading founders.

Amen, my brother!

[Starfish]

The majority of the Founding Fathers were Christian and understood the importance of religion in society. Many of them were disillusioned with the churches of their day, so deism might well describe some of them. However, they believed in God. No doubt about it.

The phrase "separation of church and state" was made by Jefferson, while he was in Europe, and not present at the organizing assembly in the states.

The government was set up to protect the freedom of religion, not to protect society from religion.

[Father Heathen]

Originally Posted by Starfish

The majority of the Founding Fathers were Christian and understood the importance of religion in society. Many of them were disillusioned with the churches of their day, so deism might well describe some of them. However, they believed in God. No doubt about it.

The phrase "separation of church and state" was made by Jefferson, while he was in Europe, and not present at the organizing assembly in the states.

The government was set up to protect the freedom of religion, not to protect society from religion.

Shouldn't religion be a personal and private affair? Does the state need to be invasive and imposing by endorsing and promoting a particular faith via legislation? What if the State became a evangelist theocracy that declared Mormonism a blasphemous heresy and that all mormons should be imprisoned, and their children taken away to camps to be taught "real" christianity?

[The Seeker]

Originally Posted by lilithu

I have to agree with logician here that I don't think Jefferson considered himself "Christian."

I agree as well. I would imagine that in order to be consider a Christian, one would have to believe that Jesus was the son of God. Jefferson believed that Jesus was a very wise man but definitely not the son of God.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by The Seeker

I agree as well. I would imagine that in order to be consider a Christian, one would have to believe that Jesus was the son of God. Jefferson believed that Jesus was a very wise man but definitely not the son of God.

Well, I know people who identify themselves as Christian but do not believe that Jesus was the son of God. (It's all so complicated that I now just let people define themselves.)

My argument is pretty much the same as logician's here. Jefferson voiced contempt towards what he considered to be Christianity. It's therefore unlikely that he self-identified as Christian.

[The Seeker]

Originally Posted by lilithu

Well, I know people who identify themselves as Christian but do not believe that Jesus was the son of God. (It's all so complicated that I now just let people define themselves.)

I don't understand that. How can you be a Christian if you don't believe Jesus was the Christ???? Oh well, I guess that's a whole other discussion.

Originally Posted by lilithu

My argument is pretty much the same as logician's here. Jefferson voiced contempt towards what he considered to be Christianity. It's therefore unlikely that he self-identified as Christian.

Agreed.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by The Seeker

I don't understand that. How can you be a Christian if you don't believe Jesus was the Christ????

They would define "the Christ" differently. It was a very odd feeling the day that I realized that I have a higher christology than some Christians.

Originally Posted by The Seeker

Oh well, I guess that's a whole other discussion.

Agreed.

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by Father Heathen

Shouldn't religion be a personal and private affair? Does the state need to be invasive and imposing by endorsing and promoting a particular faith via legislation? What if the State became a evangelist theocracy that declared Mormonism a blasphemous heresy and that all mormons should be imprisoned, and their children taken away to camps to be taught "real" christianity?

We can all agree that we wouldn't want that. Nevertheless, they felt religion was important, and wanted to protect free worship. George Washington in particular felt this way.