The U.S. was not founded as a Christian nation. (Deists, America)

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by Starfish

Done what? Named them already, or agreed there are none?

You asked:

Can anyone here name any Founding Fathers who were not Christian?

I was merely stating that it has already been done numerous times in this thread alone.


Don't believe me?
See post #219

[Starfish]

Okay, this thread, pg. 11, posts 107-109, show that Jefferson and Adams were indeed Christian. The very definition of being Christian is a belief in the divinity of Christ.

On to Franklin, and Paine . . .

[Starfish]

In 1790, just about a month before he died, Franklin wrote the following in a letter to Ezra Stiles, president of Yale, who had asked him his views on religion:“As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble....[3]”
Like most Enlightenment intellectuals, Franklin separated virtue, morality, and faith from organized religion, although he felt that if religion in general grew weaker, morality, virtue, and society in general would also decline. Thus he wrote Thomas Paine, "If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it." According to David Morgan,[32] Franklin was a proponent of all religions. He prayed to "Powerful Goodness" and referred to God as the "INFINITE. (Source Wikipedia)

At that time in history, I would have probably been a Deist.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Starfish

Okay, this thread, pg. 11, posts 107-109, show that Jefferson and Adams were indeed Christian. The very definition of being Christian is a belief in the divinity of Christ.

Jefferson and Adams did NOT believe in the divinity of Christ. No where in the quotes you posted did either say they believe in the divinity of Christ. They were Unitarian. U-N-I-T-A-R-I-A-N. That means, NOT Trinitarian. And no, I don't mean like the Mormons believe - 3 separate persons, one Godhead - I mean there is only one, uno, in the Godhead. UNITARIAN.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Starfish

In 1790, just about a month before he died, Franklin wrote the following in a letter to Ezra Stiles, president of Yale, who had asked him his views on religion:“As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble....[3]”
Like most Enlightenment intellectuals, Franklin separated virtue, morality, and faith from organized religion, although he felt that if religion in general grew weaker, morality, virtue, and society in general would also decline. Thus he wrote Thomas Paine, "If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it." According to David Morgan,[32] Franklin was a proponent of all religions. He prayed to "Powerful Goodness" and referred to God as the "INFINITE. (Source Wikipedia)

ie - Franklin did not believe in the divinity of Christ.

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by lilithu

Jefferson and Adams did NOT believe in the divinity of Christ. No where in the quotes you posted did either say they believe in the divinity of Christ. They were Unitarian. U-N-I-T-A-R-I-A-N. That means, NOT Trinitarian. And no, I don't mean like the Mormons believe - 3 separate persons, one Godhead - I mean there is only one, uno, in the Godhead. UNITARIAN.

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus....I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." Thomas Jefferson

Note: Jesus taught of his own divinity.

"Jesus is benevolence personified, an example for all men… The Christian religion, in its primitive purity and simplicity, I have entertained for more than sixty years. It is the religion of reason, equity, and love; it is the religion of the head and the heart"
John Adams
Was the definition of Christian different then? Maybe. I think Christianity has always been the belief in the divinity of Christ.

[BalanceFx]

Originally Posted by Starfish

In 1790, just about a month before he died, Franklin wrote the following in a letter to Ezra Stiles, president of Yale, who had asked him his views on religion:“As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble....[3]”
Like most Enlightenment intellectuals, Franklin separated virtue, morality, and faith from organized religion, although he felt that if religion in general grew weaker, morality, virtue, and society in general would also decline. Thus he wrote Thomas Paine, "If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it." According to David Morgan,[32] Franklin was a proponent of all religions. He prayed to "Powerful Goodness" and referred to God as the "INFINITE. (Source Wikipedia)

At that time in history, I would have probably been a Deist.

Video Clip: http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?video_id=ZWy602JbSUU
Herald Tibune: The U.S. is not a 'Christian nation' - International Herald Tribune
Ny Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/op...07meacham.html

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by lilithu

ie - Franklin did not believe in the divinity of Christ.

I don't disagree. I just posted his quote.

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes"

Interesting from an LDS point of view. But that's a different thread.