The U.S. was not founded as a Christian nation. (Deists, America)

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by logician

BTW, many people who claim to be Christian are so in name only, check out the membership roles of any church, and compare that to the people who really have anything to do with that church's activities, the results may surprise you.

Yes, it does seem like people will try to claim anyone, just to pad their own numbers.

[BalanceFx]

Originally Posted by rheff78

I may be stepping on some toes here, but oh well. I'm sure the backlash will be severe. Was the US founded as a Christian nation? No. Is Christianity the prevelant religion in America? Yes. So, has America turned INTO a Christian nation....YES. Do we have religious tolerance of other religions....YES. I'm perfectly ok with that. You guys are right, the founding fathers knew enough to know that they didn't know everything, they wanted the US to continue to grow and we have, into a Christian nation with Christian ideals. I'm fine with that (obviously). Regardless of how it makes others feel, that's the truth.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/op...=1&oref=slogin

Go read that...

Please?

Sheesh.

Ok... so lets say you have a country of christians like the USA and you decide it is a christain nation... So then you start passing laws saying if you disagree with Jesus or take his name in vain were gonna kill you... Why? Well your ******* us off thats why! We believe in Jesus so who are you to take his name in vain or talk about him in a degrading manner.

Wow you could pretty much relate that to how I get treated on these forums sometimes... Seriously people will pick apart my posts and insult me and then say I started it because I dont believe in a god. Atleast they cant kill me.

The argument made... is a nation of christians does not make a christian nation.... The NATION... The US... should be tolerant of all relgions and only draw the line when one persons freedom to a religion infringes on the freedoms of others...

That could be buying liquor on sunday cause the christians think is the day god rested therefore we should rest as well... Yeah... Stone me because I want to goto a liquor store on a sunday... More to the point... It could be terrorists flying their planes into our towers because of their religious beliefs.

Now did they not fly the planes into our towers? Did they not do it because of religious beliefs? I will hear your conspiracy theories but the current theory is they hijacked our planes and commited suicide AND murder because their religious beliefs taught them that doing this would lead them to rewards in the AFTERLIFE.

Ok?

So then the question evolves... we cant have this idiots flying planes into our buildings and killing people because they beleive thats the right thing to do... and we dont want to ban their religion.... ***... What can we do? I mean we retailiated against Afghanistan and we cant find Osama... We are still mad... Lets goto Iraq... YEAH! Saddam sucks and is a tyrant and is making WMDs to attack us lets go there!

Rally for the cause...

A nation of christians does not make a christian nation...

Enough of Iraq... Lets go back to the point. A nation which is a society should be tolerant of all views that does not infringe on another persons freedom. I have the freedom to not believe in god and the freedom to fight for my countries protection regardless of my belief in god. (As 1000s of soldiers living in canada will tell you today, going to iraq to kill poor people is not going to keep our country safe but just open more possibilities for people that want to do us harm to actually do us harm)

Anyways... to condense my argument... a society of christians should not be intolerant of people IN their society who are not christian nor force their beliefs onto other members of their society.

[Kcnorwood]

Originally Posted by Mestemia

Funny isn't it, how Christians will declare specific denominations of Christians as being non-Christian in one breath, yet accept them as Christians when it comes to the numbers....

Sad but true..... One a side note my wifes aunt is a school teacher. Now as a school teacher she believes that this nation was bulit on the Christian faith. She believes that if you do not like it them get out! You would think a school teacher would know better, I guess this is one reason why the school's suck so bad here in the U.S.

[Tau]

Originally Posted by lilithu

So is Tony Blair.

Don't remind me, little weasel, selling us out.
Damn him for 10 generations.

[Tau]

Originally Posted by BalanceFx

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/op...=1&oref=slogin

Go read that...

Please?

Sheesh.

Ok... so lets say you have a country of christians like the USA and you decide it is a christain nation... So then you start passing laws saying if you disagree with Jesus or take his name in vain were gonna kill you... Why? Well your ******* us off thats why! We believe in Jesus so who are you to take his name in vain or talk about him in a degrading manner.

Wow you could pretty much relate that to how I get treated on these forums sometimes... Seriously people will pick apart my posts and insult me and then say I started it because I dont believe in a god. Atleast they cant kill me.

The argument made... is a nation of christians does not make a christian nation.... The NATION... The US... should be tolerant of all relgions and only draw the line when one persons freedom to a religion infringes on the freedoms of others...

That could be buying liquor on sunday cause the christians think is the day god rested therefore we should rest as well... Yeah... Stone me because I want to goto a liquor store on a sunday... More to the point... It could be terrorists flying their planes into our towers because of their religious beliefs.

Now did they not fly the planes into our towers? Did they not do it because of religious beliefs? I will hear your conspiracy theories but the current theory is they hijacked our planes and commited suicide AND murder because their religious beliefs taught them that doing this would lead them to rewards in the AFTERLIFE.

Ok?

So then the question evolves... we cant have this idiots flying planes into our buildings and killing people because they beleive thats the right thing to do... and we dont want to ban their religion.... ***... What can we do? I mean we retailiated against Afghanistan and we cant find Osama... We are still mad... Lets goto Iraq... YEAH! Saddam sucks and is a tyrant and is making WMDs to attack us lets go there!

Rally for the cause...

A nation of christians does not make a christian nation...

Enough of Iraq... Lets go back to the point. A nation which is a society should be tolerant of all views that does not infringe on another persons freedom. I have the freedom to not believe in god and the freedom to fight for my countries protection regardless of my belief in god. (As 1000s of soldiers living in canada will tell you today, going to iraq to kill poor people is not going to keep our country safe but just open more possibilities for people that want to do us harm to actually do us harm)

Anyways... to condense my argument... a society of christians should not be intolerant of people IN their society who are not christian nor force their beliefs onto other members of their society.

Well said that man.

If most americans thought like this guy I would consider the United States to be the best nation on Earth.
Must be a Canadian, they are very sensible people.


That isnt easy for me to say being British and Proud.

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by logician

For those of you who think otherwise, here are the words straight from our founding fathers mouths, in a treaty with Tripoli, drafted in 1796 by George Washington, and signed by John Adams in 1797:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion, as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmenl and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Let's face it, our founding fathers stood head and shoulders above our current crop of religious fanatics in government, in both wisdom and intelligence. We need more people like this in government.

Can anyone here name any Founding Fathers who were not Christian? Just wondering. Thanks.

[BalanceFx]

Originally Posted by Starfish

Can anyone here name any Founding Fathers who were not Christian? Just wondering. Thanks.

We've already established that they were religious but thought the nation should be founded on something more. Religion is meant to be one link in the chain of america and all religions should be respected and tolerated. The forefathers said this which has also been posted and linked and quoted.

A nation of christians does not make a christian nation and attempting do so is foolhardy and shortsighted... two qualities our forefathers did not possess when they formed this nation.

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by Starfish

Can anyone here name any Founding Fathers who were not Christian? Just wondering. Thanks.

been there, done that, in this thread even.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Starfish

Can anyone here name any Founding Fathers who were not Christian? Just wondering. Thanks.

Who do you count as a Founding Father?

Jefferson and Adams followed the teachings of Jesus, but did NOT believe that Jesus was God.

Benjamin Franklin believed in God... probably... but did not identify as belonging to any religion.

Thomas Paine was most definitely a Deist.