The U.S. was not founded as a Christian nation. (Deists, America)

[Somkid]

The US wasn't founded on any religion the kooks added it later.

[logician]

"
Hence it is in large part diplomatic double-talk.
"

BS

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by logician

"
Hence it is in large part diplomatic double-talk.
"

BS

Yes, that is another way of saying it, it is indeed in large part diplomatic BS.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by mball1297

The second one is out of context. I don't remember the whole thing, I'd have to look it up, but Einstein, if a believer in anything, was a pantheist or panentheist.

Einstein was a panentheist, as am I. Panentheists are NOT atheists.

Originally Posted by mball1297

There is also a thought that Jefferson and others showed outward belief i theism to keep up the pretense for the public. I'm not going to say whether it's right or wrong, but it's very possible.

Are we suggesting that the founding fathers were liars?

[Father Heathen]

*points at the link in his signature*

Oh, and as for Einstein: "I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on creatures of his own creation. I cannot do this in spite of the fact that mechanistic causality has, to a certain extent, been placed in doubt by modern science." & "I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by lilithu

Einstein was a panentheist, as am I. Panentheists are NOT atheists.

No, I'm not saying they are, but the quote you used implies him to be more of a theist or at least deist. That's all.

Are we suggesting that the founding fathers were liars?

They were politicians. Sometimes, lies are good for the greater good. I'm not claiming that they were liars, but there is some evidence for it.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by Father Heathen

*points at the link in his signature*

Oh, and as for Einstein: "I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on creatures of his own creation. I cannot do this in spite of the fact that mechanistic causality has, to a certain extent, been placed in doubt by modern science." & "I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."

He also said he believed God did not cast dice. Count all the qualifications in his statement and deduce the exceptions to those qualifications.

I believe in God but I do not believe God directs or influences our decisions. To decide is why we are here in the first place.

Regards,
Scott

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by mball1297

No, I'm not saying they are, but the quote you used implies him to be more of a theist or at least deist. That's all.

The quote I used was in direct response to logician making the claim that Einstein was an atheist. My point is that Einstein believed in God. I didn't say what kind of god. It's really a pity that so many people can only conceive of the traditional Christian god/classical theism and no god/atheism as the two possibilities. It leaves out all the rest of us.

The claim by some atheists that all our revered thinkers were/are in fact atheists, whether they identified as such or not, is to me no different than the claim by some Christians that all our revered thinkers were/are in fact Christians. Some were/are truly Christian. Some were/are truly atheist. And believe it or not the rest ran/run the gamut.

Jefferson was a Unitarian. And no, I'm not claiming all our founding fathers were Unitarians, only the ones who actually were. And while Unitarians have oft been accused of being atheists, at the time of Jefferson they were most definitely not (unlike today where many UUs are). As for whether he was faking it for show, I'll leave that up to the conspiracy theorists.