Redefining Marriage and all that (sex, faith)

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by Fluffy

But we find bigotry in any demographic. Christians are the largest religious demographic and so we would expect to find the largest proportion of bigotry coming from them.

No, we should expect that the largest number of bigots in our society are Christian, but that proportionally, Christians are no more likely to be bigots than anybody else.

Originally Posted by Fluffy

In other words, there is nothing about Christianity that causes this to be so

Of course there is. There are innumerable Christian leaders who make it their business to foster fear and hatred of homosexuals.

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by MidnightBlue

No, we should expect that the largest number of bigots in our society are Christian, but that proportionally, Christians are no more likely to be bigots than anybody else.

Of course there is. There are innumerable Christian leaders who make it their business to foster fear and hatred of homosexuals.

First, I think the original quote said the same thing, just using the wrong word. I took it to mean that because Christianity is the largest religious group in the country, that the largest number of bigots would be Christian, regardless of how he actually said it.

That second point is true, but what he said was that there's no reason Christianity would inherently have more bigots than any other religion. People understand religion in different ways, but that's not the core religion's fault. A lot of people take some Islamic teachings in a way that most would consider wrong, but that doesn't make the actual teaching wrong.

[rheff78]

Originally Posted by MidnightBlue

No, we should expect that the largest number of bigots in our society are Christian, but that proportionally, Christians are no more likely to be bigots than anybody else.

Of course there is. There are innumerable Christian leaders who make it their business to foster fear and hatred of homosexuals.

It's not fear, it's pity.

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by rheff78

It's not fear, it's pity.

IF you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by mball1297

That second point is true, but what he said was that there's no reason Christianity would inherently have more bigots than any other religion. People understand religion in different ways, but that's not the core religion's fault. A lot of people take some Islamic teachings in a way that most would consider wrong, but that doesn't make the actual teaching wrong.

But there is no such thing as a "core religion" in real life. There are only religions. We call Mormons and Roman Catholics and Southern Baptists and Pentecostals all Christians because they are historically connected and have some beliefs in common, but they're very different, and what matters is how each community plays out on the ground. The interpretation is the religion, for each different Christian community. There is no "core" to be found in the Bible, or in the teachings of Jesus, or anywhere else, that forms the true heart of all of those forms of Christianity.

In fact, if we were to take their actual beliefs and practices and see what they have in common, we would have to conclude that the fear and hatred of homosexuals is, in fact, one of the core beliefs of Christianity. It's certainly one of the aspects of Christianity that is most actively promoted by Christians, and one of the aspects that they feel most strongly about imposing on society in general. Even relatively liberal Christians who think we should have equal rights under the law manage to content themselves with rigid discrimination within the church.

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by rheff78

It's not fear, it's pity.

No, pity would be accompanied by some degree of compassion.

When Christians say they are defending traditional marriage from homosexuals, when in fact traditional marriage is not under attack by homosexuals and has never been under attack by homosexuals, what are they doing but fostering fear and hatred? They depict us not only as enemies, but as aggressors determined to destroy their way of life -- a portrait that bears no relation at all to reality. People who feel pity don't behave that way; people who feel fear and hatred do.

[rheff78]

Well, in our point of view (being Christians) we believe that trying to get gay marriage IS a challenge to traditional marriage. You are challenging our very definiton of a traditional marriage. So, even though you say you aren't attacking our view of traditional marriage, you still are, in our eyes.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by rheff78

Well, in our point of view (being Christians) we believe that trying to get gay marriage IS a challenge to traditional marriage. You are challenging our very definiton of a traditional marriage. So, even though you say you aren't attacking our view of traditional marriage, you still are, in our eyes.

One group has a definition that's different from yours, and this is an "attack" on "traditional marriage"? Nobody's saying that you should enter into a gay marriage if you don't want to.

Arranged marriage is, IMO, just as different from the "traditional" version of marriage in our culture as same-sex marriage is. Is arranged marriage an "attack" as well?

[rheff78]

You're not understanding what I'm saying. Gay people saying they want to get married is still an attack on OUR traditional view of marriage. We don't care if you're saying WE should enter into a gay marriage, your views are still a challenge to our views.