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  #751  
Old 12-12-2007, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by DreGod07 View Post
You will not be able to find anything in the scripture to support your claim that Yeshua is God. If so it would have truely been laid out by now. None of his followers thought him to be God. "Whatever you ask OF GOD HE WILL GIVE IT TO you". We certainly can't look upon that and assume she believed he was God....."My God, My God...why have YOU left ME".....Same here.....

I have never speculated as to what kind of being Yeshua was before coming here. That information is not given in the scripture. What is in the scripture is this....

Yeshua before coming here had his own will. "I came not of my own will but the will of the one who sent me".

I was commanded what to say.....I was taught what to say....I was sent.....I did as I saw my father (God) do.....He gave me......

All this (BEFORE) coming to earth and is confirmed by scripture.
God is immutable. He does not change by inhabiting a body.

Jesus does not have a separate will from the Father. The only will that can be different is the will of the flesh which Jesus has overcome.
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  #752  
Old 12-12-2007, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffled View Post
God is immutable. He does not change by inhabiting a body.
Ok...I repeat myself then. I do not speculate as to what kind of being Yeshua was before coming here. That information is not given in the scripture. This statement goes to those who believe Yeshua is God or pose the question to me as to if I believe Yeshua was an angel in heaven. I make my statement because that kind of information is not given. Yeshua was one of God's servants who did the will of God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffled View Post
Jesus does not have a separate will from the Father.
Are you not reading your own bible? I have been saying that (HE MOST CERTAINLY DOES) from the beginning and now you want to come along and make a claim like this? If you are doubting that Yeshua, while in heaven, had his own will then you may lack a basic fundamental understanding of the scripture. The scripture is straight to the point on this. Here's what Yeshua said about his will....

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

As I've stated before, Yeshua, BEFORE coming here, had his own will. Even in that verse we find separation.


6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

As I have been saying Yeshua came to do the will of God that sent him.


6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Do you see it now? He has to repeat himself so that his followers would understand exactly who he was, who sent him and what his purpose of being sent was.

Look, you made the statement but it is right there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffled View Post
The only will that can be different is the will of the flesh which Jesus has overcome.
That's not what Yeshua said in John 6:38......
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Last edited by Dirty Penguin; 12-13-2007 at 06:55 AM.
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  #753  
Old 12-13-2007, 11:18 AM
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[quote=Muffled;1015406]God is immutable. He does not change by inhabiting a body.
quote]

Quite right, God is God and can never be contained within any part of His Creation.

Regards,
Scot
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  #754  
Old 12-13-2007, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Muffled View Post
Jesus does not have a separate will from the Father. The only will that can be different is the will of the flesh which Jesus has overcome.
Then there is no point to Christ ever having come. If He had no will of His Own, then He was not a man. Man has WILL, it is part of his nature. Jesus spent forty days in the desert decigint to do God's will rather than His own. When Jesus prayed in the garden, He begged God to change His will for Jesus, Jesus CHOSE to follow God's will not His own. That's no sacrifice otherwise.

Jesus prayed and taught us to pray "Thy will be done." what's the point if He had no will of His own?

Your statement is very poorly thought out.

Regards,

Scott
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  #755  
Old 12-13-2007, 11:50 AM
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It is impossible for Jesus Christ and God to be the same personage.

Jesus Christ prays to the Father as in Mark 14, why would he pray to himself?
Quote:

36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
Why in Matthew 3 does it say:

Quote:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

just for a couple refrences.
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  #756  
Old 12-13-2007, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Popeyesays View Post
Then there is no point to Christ ever having come. If He had no will of His Own, then He was not a man. Man has WILL, it is part of his nature. Jesus spent forty days in the desert decigint to do God's will rather than His own. When Jesus prayed in the garden, He begged God to change His will for Jesus, Jesus CHOSE to follow God's will not His own. That's no sacrifice otherwise.

Jesus prayed and taught us to pray "Thy will be done." what's the point if He had no will of His own?

Your statement is very poorly thought out.

Regards,

Scott
I think he is randomly posting to see if he can get a rise out of us or just for his own pleasure in keeping this debate going.

I'm not sure how many times some one can refer to theior god before people stop wasting their tim in assuming that person IS God. Yeshua isn't God because he showed us he wasn't and he showed us he had a God. He did this by words and actions. Even the opinion of men, conflited in their thoughts and words, believed Yeshua was totally seperate from God.

Look at what Paul really believed.....(At least what he believe for the moment in this letter)

2 Corithians 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
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  #757  
Old 12-15-2007, 07:43 AM
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[quote=Popeyesays;1016359]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffled View Post
God is immutable. He does not change by inhabiting a body.
quote]

Quite right, God is God and can never be contained within any part of His Creation.

Regards,
Scot
I am glad to see that you are finally coming to terms with this issue despite the fact that Dre already thought you had. I totally agree with you that the body can't contain God. What is present is the intelligence of God which is present everywhere but it is not always in control of a body as it is with Jesus. It is this intelligence that carries the identity of God not his spatiality. Let's say that I am talking on the telephone. My body isn't on the receiving end but you can still tell it is me. I have not become a different person simply becasue you are hearing me in a different city from the one I am in.
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  #758  
Old 12-15-2007, 11:50 AM
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[quote=Muffled;1017722]
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Originally Posted by Popeyesays View Post

I am glad to see that you are finally coming to terms with this issue despite the fact that Dre already thought you had. I totally agree with you that the body can't contain God. What is present is the intelligence of God which is present everywhere but it is not always in control of a body as it is with Jesus. It is this intelligence that carries the identity of God not his spatiality. Let's say that I am talking on the telephone. My body isn't on the receiving end but you can still tell it is me. I have not become a different person simply becasue you are hearing me in a different city fr