Did Jesus say he was God??? (moral, Earth, Messiah, virgin)

[Buttercup]

Originally Posted by Luke_17:2

How can you trust Him as a messenger if you don't believe He is God. He claimed to be God, so they're only two possibilities: He was God, or He wasn't God and was thus lying.

If the latter, I ask you; why would you trust in a liar?

No, there's three possibilities.....Jesus was either Lord, Liar or Lunatic. And, none of those choices we can ever know with certainty. You have to trust completely in words from people you never knew.

[Luke_17:2]

No, there's three possibilities.....Jesus was either Lord, Liar or Lunatic.

No, there are only two. Jesus said He was, so He was either lying or telling the truth. If He was a lunatic, then He was lying.

You have to trust completely in words from people you never knew.

That's just it. I believe they're God's words written down by man. I know the Lord.

[Buttercup]

Originally Posted by Luke_17:2

No, there are only two. Jesus said He was, so He was either lying or telling the truth. If He was a lunatic, then He was lying.

My comment was mostly tongue-n-cheek. Guess you never read Josh McDowell's, Evidence That Demands a Verdict.

That's just it. I believe they're God's words written down by man. I know the Lord.

I was a Baptist Christian for 25 years....I finally came to the conclusion that God can't expect us to believe in him solely from ancient words from a book. And, the Holy Spirit sounds just like me.

[rocketman]

Originally Posted by Luke_17:2

If Jesus wasn't God, the reasons the Jewish leaders wanted to kill Him are really quite just.

That's a truly fundamental point. Well said.

[Dirty Penguin]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

You're misquoting Isaiah, you know.

You're leaving out the initial words of the first verse of the first chapter of the Gospel of John
The quotes from John chapter eight and 10 are out of context.

Try reading the thread--nothin you posted has been missed prior to your appearance.

Regards,

Scott

Thanks Popeyesays. I was going to respond to him but you beat me to it.


Yes, I have responded to Isaiah and most likely the rest of that stuff.....

[Super Universe]

So why would Jesus mention His Father so much if Jesus was Him?

For some people, even being the Son of God just isn't enough.

[logician]

"No, there's three possibilities.....Jesus was either Lord, Liar or Lunatic. "

Nom there's a fourth, he was a myth.

[Dirty Penguin]

Originally Posted by Luke_17:2

Well, there's a supreme problem with that statement because I wasn't quoting. I was summarizing.

This is me quoting:

"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel." -Isaiah 7:14

Originally Posted by Luke_17:2

Now, "a virgin shall conceive and bear a son", it says. That's Mary. "...and she shal call His (that's Jesus) name Immanuel" -Immanuel means "God with us".

Here's the verse translated from the Tanankh by Jewish scholars.

Isaiah 7:14 (Masoretic Text and the JPS 1917 Edition)
Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: behold, the young woman shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Nowhere do we find Mary being ordered to call Yeshua by the title (ImmanuEl). She nerver once in the NT by herself called her son by that title. Nowhere in the NT do we find anyone else calling him by that title. The so-called prophecy is referenced by the author of the book of Matthew and only by him. None of the other authors record this supposed prophecy. This was soley the author's interpertation.

Originally Posted by Luke_17:2

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" -Isaiah 9:6

Again, not just relying on the KJV here's the verse translated by Jewish schoars from the Tanankh.

Isaiah 9:6 (Masoretic Text and the JPS 1917 Edition)
For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace.

Rashi, (Shlomo Yitzchaki, 1040-1105 C.E.), who wrote the definitive commentaries on the Hebrew Bible comments thusly:

and… called his name: The Holy One, blessed be He, Who gives wondrous counsel, is a mighty God and an everlasting Father, called Hezekiah’s name, “the prince of peace,” since peace and truth will be in his days.

Originally Posted by Luke_17:2

"The Mighty God"? Why would the scriptures say that?

Maybe it's because He is the mighty God.

It maybe due to the weak translation and the author in the NT giving his interpertation.

Originally Posted by Luke_17:2

This is what it says:

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God"

Jesus is the Word, and the Word is God.

Later in verse 14:

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth"

John 1.1 and 14 are not in dispute. The only thing that is in dispute is the interpertation.

John 1:1 stands all by itself...OK we accept that. Now the interpertaion in 14 is something all together different.

"and the word was made flesh and dwelt among us"......Yeshua was God's word here on earth. Was he physically God....NO.....The "words' of God he spoke were not his. God taught him, sent him and commanded him what he should say. So Yeshua was God's (Ambassador)....

John 7:16
Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His
who sent Me.

Joh 12:49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who
sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.

Joh 14:24
"He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word
which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.

John 17:14
I have given them your word;and the world has hated them (God's word) because they (God's word - not Yeshua or Yeshua's word) are not of the world, even as I (Yeshua) am not of the world.

Yeshua was the physical representative of God's word which he was supposed to relay to a lost and misguided people. God sent Yeshua from heaven to earth with his (God's) word and he (Yeshua) was commanded what he should say. He confirms this. So yes...the "word" was made flesh. We find that all of the other times God sent his word with the angels (who were not made flesh) which brought them to man. Yeshua was the only one of the sons of God made flesh to bring God's word. Does that make him God....NOPE.......!!

Originally Posted by Luke_17:2

Jesus claimed to be God, the Scriptures say He was God: He was God.

Can you show me where he says that or are you going to do what most have done and refer me to the famous (John 8:58)????? If so then this too has been dealt with and none of that WHOLE conversation did Yeshua refer to himself as God or equal himself to God......