Did Jesus say he was God??? - Page 523

Shermana · #**5221** 10-30-2011, 05:22 AM

Seriously? I'm using your OWN DEFINITION of "I am" to prove you wrong. I already believe that "I am" in the sense of 8:58 means "I have been", that's nothing to do with the point of proving to you that "Ego Eimi" doesn't mean "I am" in the same sense that you are trying to make it say. Not only that, but you're dodging the subject of why a statement is the same as a given name. It appears you are unable to provide a non-Trinitarian scholar to back your claim.

And I really don't see the difference between "Jesus said" and "he answered".

Mark2020 · #**5222** 10-30-2011, 05:30 AM

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Originally Posted by Shermana

Seriously? I'm using your OWN DEFINITION of "I am" to prove you wrong...

And I guess claiming an infinitive to be present is using my definition too.

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It appears you are unable to provide a non-Trinitarian scholar to back your claim.

I'll leave this to you. I've already given my references.
But obviously what your left with is attacking the authors of references now.

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And I really don't see the difference between "Jesus said" and "he answered".

haha
After you're proven wrong you're trying to throw useless words.
Wasn't it your argument that "answered" means there is no implications in the sentence? (which is ridiculous to say the least).
I guess your next argument will be:
"said" means there are no implications!
Such poor arguments only show how poor your case is.

Mark2020 · #**5223** 10-30-2011, 05:33 AM

Actually the contrast between gensthai and eimi is as important as the absolute use of "Ego eimi"

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The contrast between γενεσθαι [genesthai] (entrance into existence of Abraham) and εἰμι [eimi] (timeless being) is complete. See the same contrast between ἐν [en] in 1:1 and ἐγενετο [egeneto] in 1:14. See the contrast also in Psa. 90:2 between God (εἰ [ei], art) and the mountains (γενηθηναι [genēthēnai]). See the same use of εἰμι [eimi] in John 6:20; 9:9; 8:24, 28; 18:6.

Shermana · #**5224** 10-30-2011, 05:36 AM

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And I guess claiming an infinitive to be present is using my definition too.

Right, that explains why Genesthai is used 20x for "will be" or "comes to be" or "will become" in the future present tense.

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I'll leave this to you. I've already given my references.
But obviously what your left with is attacking the authors of references now.

Trinitarian references that seem to outright ignore what the other side is saying and don't bother to address their arguments? What I'm left with is attacking their actual lack of basis for their claims, as well as their dodging of critical facts.

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haha
After you're proven wrong you're trying to throw useless words.
Wasn't it your argument that "answered" means there is no implications in the sentence? (which is ridiculous to say the least).
I guess your next argument will be:
"said" means there are no implications!
Such poor arguments only show how poor your case is.

The irony here is so much there are magnets flying to the screen. Would you care to actually explain why "he answered" is so different than "Jesus said" or do you want to use more useless words that don't actually address anything?

Mark2020 · #**5225** 10-30-2011, 05:47 AM

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Originally Posted by Shermana

Right, that explains why Genesthai is used 20x for "will be" or "comes to be" or "will become" in the future present tense.

That's just your poor Greek.
If you check the whole sentence where it's used, you'll see why it is thus translated.
It is still infinitive.

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Trinitarian references...

Keep attacking references.
Actually it's funny coming from someone who can't tell an infinitive from a present verb.
Well done!

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Would you care to actually explain why "he answered" is so different than "Jesus said" or do you want to use more useless words that don't actually address anything?

My previous answer is clear enough.
You're just throwing useless words.
Hard to admit defeat yet again I guess.

Shermana · #**5226** 10-30-2011, 05:48 AM

You really have to resort to cutting out my responses don't you. Why don't you actually address what I said in its fullness. I said WHY the references were wrong, and this might be why you snipped my answer. I also can guess why you've refused more than twice to get a non-Trinitarian scholar who agrees with your position.

And no, your previous answer is not clear whatsoever, what it IS clear about is that you completely avoided the very concept itself. Your answer was basically "I am" means "Eternal", even though Jesus was referring to past tense only, just as how Genesthai was used as past tense. Do you know the difference with "Aorist Active infinitive"? Do you know what "Aorist active' Means?

Also, unless you're willing to get into why Genesthai is used in past tense in 8:58 as an "infinitive", feel free to spout the same baseless thing while avoiding the Aorist Active component. "I am" clearly means past tense by the indication of the Aorist Active tense.

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Hard to admit defeat yet again I guess.

You are ultimate proof. Have a good night.

Mark2020 · #**5227** 10-30-2011, 05:56 AM

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Originally Posted by Shermana

And no, your previous answer...

I said there is no predicate implied, which means "Ego eimi" is used absolutely.
You gave your silly argument of "answered", which is irrelevant, yet I replied to it.

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Also, unless you're willing to get into why Genesthai is used in past tense in 8:58 as an "infinitive", feel free to spout the same baseless thing.

Get its morphology.
I suspect you already got it, since it isn't hard to find, but you just don't dare admit it since it proves you wrong.
γενέσθαι genesthai 1096 V-2ADN (Aorist middle infinitve) came to be

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You are ultimate proof. Have a good night.

Sorry, you're the one giving the poorest arguments which tells your position. Yet again, what's new?