Did Jesus say he was God??? (moral, Earth, Messiah, virgin)

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by Muffled

"Reflect how Jesus, the Spirit of God" equate Jesus to the Spirit of God which equates Jesus to God. God does not have a spirit separate from himself. God is one.

No. It establishes Them as separate.

Regards,

Scott

[YmirGF]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

Well, God is invisible to us, unseen. And the only way He can make Himself known is to send a Divine Messenger, animated by the Holy Spirit to teach us and be the best example of God our senses can perceive.

That is quite an assumption Scott. You say that "god" is invisible to us, unseen" and yet Baha’u’llah himself writes about how he perceived "god". So which is it? Yet again you insist that the only way "god" makes itself "known" to us is through so-called "divine" messengers who are puppets of the Holy Spirit. This is simply not true. I would suggest you underestimate the creative power and potential of that which you claim to know.

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

But even in that exalted state, He is not God. For God is ONE, not divisible nor subject to multiplication, and remains the Traceless Friend, the Ancient of Days, the Uncreated, the Creator.

Yet again you insist on limiting that which you know little about. Is this your own perception or are you simply using the words of others you simply do not understand while thinking you speak from a position of knowledge?

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

So, no Jesus is not God in God's Essence. He is a Manifestation of God and Divine Teacher and as such is not God.

What a rather pompous pronouncement. What exactly are your qualifications to render such an opinion Scott? I would suggest you have virtually no understanding of the nature of the avatar and yet you have the unmitigated gall to come across as so wise and knowing. Is this just you or is this a "feature" of members of the Bahai’s faith?

Regards,
Paul/YmirGF

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by YmirGF

That is quite an assumption Scott. You say that "god" is invisible to us, unseen" and yet Baha’u’llah himself writes about how he perceived "god". So which is it? Yet again you insist that the only way "god" makes itself "known" to us is through so-called "divine" messengers who are puppets of the Holy Spirit. This is simply not true. I would suggest you underestimate the creative power and potential of that which you claim to know.

Yet again you insist on limiting that which you know little about. Is this your own perception or are you simply using the words of others you simply do not understand while thinking you speak from a position of knowledge?

What a rather pompous pronouncement. What exactly are your qualifications to render such an opinion Scott? I would suggest you have virtually no understanding of the nature of the avatar and yet you have the unmitigated gall to come across as so wise and knowing. Is this just you or is this a "feature" of members of the Bahai’s faith?

Regards,
Paul/YmirGF

Paul,

I have no desire to respond to this either in substance or tone.

Regards,
Scott

[Popeyesays]

As to how the Manifestations perceive God, They do so in symbolic means: Moses beheld a burning bush that did not consume itself. Zoroaster beheld the eternal flame, Jesus beheld the dove, Muhammed the Angel Gabriel, The Bab the head of Husayn, and Baha`u'llah the Divine Maiden.

And yes, the Manifestation is something other than the rest of humanity, His perceptions are deeper and His knowledge is given to Him as He requires it.

I am not quite sure if you know the meaning of 'avatar' or not.

Regards,
Scott

[Ozzie]

Originally Posted by Muffled

I have been asked to produce evidence of the divinity of Jesus. This is not just good evidence, it is overwhelming evidence.


Words of Jesus

John 14:9 ... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father
John 14:10 ... the words that I say unto you , I speak not from myself but from the Father abiding in Me doeth His works
John 14:11 ... I am in the Father and the Father in Me
John 10:30 I and My Father are one
John 10:33 ... thou being a man makest Thyself God
John 8:58 Jesus said ... before Abraham was born, Jah (Jah is the short form of Jeshovah)
John 8:59 They took up stones therefore to cast at Him
Mark 2:5 and Jesus seeing their faith saith ... thy sins are forgiven
Mark 2:7 ... who can forgive sins but one, even God
Mark 10:17 ... good teacher Mark 10:18 Why callest Me good? None is good save one, even God John 10:11 I am the good shepherd
Mat. 1:21 ... call his name Jesus; for it is He that shall save his people from their sins
Prophecies of the Messiah Jesus
Isa. 45:21 ... I, Jehovah? and there is no God else besides Me a just God and savior, there is none besides Me
Isa. 7:14 ... a sign: behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call His name Immanuel (God with us)
Isa 9:6 a son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called: Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

Attributes of God
Omnipresence
John 1:46 Nathaniel saith unto Him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him Before Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
John 1:49 Nathaniel answered him, Rabbi thou art the Son of God; thou art King of Israel.
John 1:50 Jesus answered ... thou shalt see greater things than these
Omniscience
Luke 6:8 ...the Pharisees watched Him ... that they might find how to accuse him but He knew their thoughts
John 4:17 ... Thou sayest well, I have no husband
John 4:18 for thou hast had five husbands and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband
Omnipotence
Mark 4:41 ... Who then is this, that even the wind and the sea obey Him?

(He turned water into wine, multiplied bread, healed the sick and the blind, raised a man who was dead for four days)
Authority
Luke 4:36 ... for with authority and power He commandeth the unclean spirits and they come out
Mat 7:29 for He taught them as one having authority
Mat 28:18 ... Jesus ...spake... saying, all authority hath been given unto Me in heaven and on earth
The "I am" statements of Jesus
John 8:12 ... I am the light of the world
John 14:6 ... I am the way, the truth and the life
John 6:35 ... I am the bread of life
John 10:9 I am the door, by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved
John 11:25 ... I am the resurrection and the life
John 15:1 I am the true vine (this is a reference to Jesus being the Paraclete)

Who are you in the flesh?

[YmirGF]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

As to how the Manifestations perceive God, They do so in symbolic means: Moses beheld a burning bush that did not consume itself. Zoroaster beheld the eternal flame, Jesus beheld the dove, Muhammed the Angel Gabriel, The Bab the head of Husayn, and Baha`u'llah the Divine Maiden.

Hmm. I simply do not place any of these other people in the same class as the Christ, period. That is my opinion, it is just irksome that you do not preface your remarks with, "this is merely my opinion", instead of coming off like you are speaking with any factual authority.

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

And yes, the Manifestation is something other than the rest of humanity, His perceptions are deeper and His knowledge is given to Him as He requires it.

Knowledge is not like a plate of cookies Scott. It is something that is earned. These manifestations as you call them are much more than you might think or have been led to believe by less than accurate sources. It is my opinion that these sources claim as they do minimizing the nature of these beings while magnifying their own worth. In effect, they are riding on the coattails of the various avatars. It angers me when I see terms like "they are given" as that is an outright lie, although I will settle for calling it a simple misunderstanding. You cannot give them something they already possess and one does not get to that status by resting on their laurels. God gives them far less than they, by their own quest for understanding, get themselves.

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

I am not quite sure if you know the meaning of 'avatar' or not.

Given that I am not inclined to use words that I do not know the meaning of that is a puzzling statement. Without looking it up, as that would be cheating, I recall the Sanskrit definition reads something like "descent (of divinity) into flesh" -- which in effect means a "god/man" hybrid. Fully god and fully man.
From the Mighty Wiki... all in all, not a bad rendering of the term "avatar".

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

The word "

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

avatar" derives from the Sanskrit term Avatāra, meaning "incarnation" and usually refers to the deliberate descent of an immortal or divine being into the mortal realm for a special purpose. The term is used primarily in Hindu texts. For example, Krishna is the eighth avatar (incarnation) of Vishnu the Preserver, whom many Hindus worship as God. The Dasavatara are ten particular "great" incarnations of Vishnu.

I dunno Scott, how do you understand the term? It is a bit more than a cute little picture on a computer screen. I do apologize for getting hissy with you, I guess I just expect more for some reason. I wonder why that is?

[Popeyesays]

"


I dunno Scott, how do you understand the term? It is a bit more than a cute little picture on a computer screen. I do apologize for getting hissy with you, I guess I just expect more for some reason. I wonder why that is? "

You getting 'hissy' with me does not reflect badly on me, Paul. What you expect from me is not binding on me to provide.

Regards,
Scott

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by Tangnefedd

Whatever Jesus was 2000 years ago, he is not a physical presence now!

Our last evidence (from the Bible) is that of a living Jesus in a body that does not die ascending into heaven. Do you have any evidence to refute our evidence?