Did Jesus say he was God??? (moral, Earth, Messiah, virgin)

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

By Jewish tradition and scriptural reference Jesus was the son of God, but then, so am I and so are you.

Also "son of man" in Jewish scriptures refers to a prophet. See Ezra for one example.

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by Booko

Victor, many of those early Christians came from backgrounds where they thought it was normal to believe the Emperor was a god. So believing someone even greater like Jesus was God would've been like believing the sky is blue on a sunny day.

I don't think I necessarily have to interpret what Jesus said about Himself in the light of some old pagan Greco-Roman religious tradition. It's natural that they would do so, but why should I be bound by that?

It depends on the community.

For Jews, it is impossible to believe. In the New Testament, the Christian message is explicitly directed to Jews.

For others, Jesus as God is not a very appealing case, particularly when the Christian message is exclusive - that Jesus is the only God, and the God of the Jews - a community that is kept at arm's length by the Romans.

The only people who were particularly prone to accept this message were God-fearers, if they actually existed. The God-fearers were Greco-Romans who were partial to the Jewish message - the almost-proselyte. They participated in synogouge but were not full Jews because of their diet. Christianity taught them that they would be fully included in Judaism without the diet and following of some of the law, so it could have been a real hit with these folks, and that's what is indicated in the NT.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

What if a Baha'i practitioner obtained an unimpeded view? Could they still be Baha'i? Can there be Baha'i mystics who are acknowledged part of the community even though they don't recognize any authoritative interpretation of Baha'i mythology?

It is not within the human capacity to acquire "an unimpeded view." That's not the purpose of Creation nor is it the purpose of the creation of an individual human.

I've known several Baha`i Mystics, the most eloquent of whom was Guy Murchee (I recommend any of his books--particularly The Seven Mysteries of Life.

"Authoratative interpretation" is a phrase with a significantly different definition in the Baha`i Faith, so I am loathe to answer that question til I know what you consider the phrase to mean.

Booko is quite right we do consider the Divine Manifestation to be another order of existence as significantly different from man as man's order of existence is above the animal. The capacity of the manifestation's knowledge, Certitude, and Communion with God is no0t something I can intuitively understand.

Regards,
Scott

[Popeyesays]

Jesus received the Transfiguration in the presence of two other Transfigured Prophets: Moses and Elijah. Were they God incarnate as well?

Regardsx,
Scott

[ChristineES]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

Dear ChristianES,

By Jewish tradition and scriptural reference Jesus was the son of God, but then, so am I and so are you.

Regards,
Scott

And I guess that is why the pharisees, who were Jews, wanted to kill Him.
Because He said he was the same as everyone else? That doesn't make sense. I guess it does to you.
Jesus saying He was the Son of God is saying that He is equal to God, that is why the Pharisees wanted Him killed. That is what the Bible says, and so it is what I am repeating.
This is the last I am responding to this thread, it is getting ridiculous.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

It depends on the community.

For Jews, it is impossible to believe. In the New Testament, the Christian message is explicitly directed to Jews.

Yeah, I wasn't clear at all, as I didn't say anything about timeframe. What the people who heard Jesus personally would've thought and what various and sundry Gentiles might've understood from the information relayed by the early teachers of the faith would be pretty different, I'd think.

The only people who were particularly prone to accept this message were God-fearers, if they actually existed. The God-fearers were Greco-Romans who were partial to the Jewish message - the almost-proselyte. They participated in synogouge but were not full Jews because of their diet. Christianity taught them that they would be fully included in Judaism without the diet and following of some of the law, so it could have been a real hit with these folks, and that's what is indicated in the NT.

Great history summary, AE.

Yeah, whether people would be subject to Jewish law was quite a controversy. The subject of circumcision was especially touchy among the Gentiles.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by ChristineES

And I guess that is why the pharisees, who were Jews, wanted to kill Him.
Because He said he was the same as everyone else? That doesn't make sense.f

Here's what makes sense: Jesus challenged their authority, prominence, and threatened their market share.

That's enough to get any new religious movement persecuted.

It's happening right now to the Baha'is in Iran, who are the largest religious minority there. It has been since our inception, when the Bab was teaching.

If I could paraphrase the Man here: a prophet is never accepted in his hometown.

In fact, this seems to be so much the typical pattern for the founder of any religion that ends up surviving, I'm automatically suspicious of any new religious movement that *isn't* persecuted by the powers-that-be.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by ChristineES

And I guess that is why the pharisees, who were Jews, wanted to kill Him.
Because He said he was the same as ev