Did Jesus say he was God??? (moral, Earth, Messiah, virgin)

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

Or, in other words he possessed the same "Free Will" that his physical father did.

If you like, but that's not what it says.

Physically man is just an animal--it is the quality of rational thought and free will that set him apart from the animal and make this creature "man".

But dogs don't beget cats, and cows don't beget horses. There are many species in the animal kingdom, of which man is one. I'm not arguing that, nor am I arguing that the rational thought and free will that God gave man does not set him apart from all of the other animals God created. God gave us the ability to become like Him someday. He didn't give the other species within the animal kingdom this ability. That, however, is entirely beside the point of what it meant for God to have created man "in His image, after His likeness."

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

If you like, but that's not what it says.

But dogs don't beget cats, and cows don't beget horses. There are many species in the animal kingdom, of which man is one. I'm not arguing that, nor am I arguing that the rational thought and free will that God gave man does not set him apart from all of the other animals God created. God gave us the ability to become like Him someday. He didn't give the other species within the animal kingdom this ability. That, however, is entirely beside the point of what it meant for God to have created man "in His image, after His likeness."

In the old Testament, God cannot even be looked upon, He appears asa burning bush because Moses, His Own Prophet, cannot look upon Him and live. If God were shaped like a human, why would Moses be unable to look upon God.

My scriptures say that God is not Knowable in His Essence, cannot be perceived by the eye of man. We know nothing of what God is or is not that has not been revealed by His Prophets think that the explanation of Creation in Genesis is literal in any sense is not reasonable. It's an allegory and it has ten thousand possible interpretations all of which only give us a glimpse of the truth behind the words.

This literal mindedness is what turned me off with the LDS back when I was fifteen, almost 45 years ago, and it remains the issue with me.

I(t doesn't make sense to try to make God anthropomorphic. God is beyond the description and understanding of any man--even Jesus Christ.

Regards,

Scott
To

[UnityNow101]

To place God into any preverbial "box" is wrong in my estimation. We must remember that God is infinately exalted above His creation and His essence is unknowable to our finite minds. Otherwise, we would all understand God and understand His Being..But we don't. Even among certain religious groups there are numerous differences between their views on God's essence and being.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

In the old Testament, God cannot even be looked upon, He appears asa burning bush because Moses, His Own Prophet, cannot look upon Him and live. If God were shaped like a human, why would Moses be unable to look upon God.

God's physical shape has nothing whatsoever to do with it. Besides, God didn't appear as a burning bush. His voice was heard coming from a burning bush. And what about these passages from the Old Testament?

Genesis 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Exodus 24:10-11 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

Exodus 33:22-23 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

My scriptures say that God is not Knowable in His Essence, cannot be perceived by the eye of man.

I can accept that. Mine say otherwise, and they don't describe Him as as "essence."

We know nothing of what God is or is not that has not been revealed by His Prophets think that the explanation of Creation in Genesis is literal in any sense is not reasonable.

The thing is, Scott, a man I believe to have been such a prophet said precisely the opposite.

This literal mindedness is what turned me off with the LDS back when I was fifteen, almost 45 years ago, and it remains the issue with me.

Okay. Sorry we turned you off. A lot of people are actually excited to learn that they can trust what the Bible says about God without having to look for the hidden meaning behind the words. I guess we each have to find our own path. The Latter-day Saints, by the way, are not Bible literalists, but we do keep the metaphorical interpretations to a minimum. (By the way, I didn't know you and I were as close in age as we are. I'll be 59 later this year. )

[Popeyesays]

I;ve always found that particular verse strange--that God would "moon" the elders of Israel.

Those verses are all symbolic, rather than literal.

Yup, sixty in July (the 28th actually.

Regards,
Scott

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

I;ve always found that particular verse strange--that God would "moon" the elders of Israel.

Well, I'm not sure I'd put it quite that way, but I'll admit it's a bit odd. If the verse is symbolic, though, the symbolism obviously means something. What would your interpretation be?

Those verses are all symbolic, rather than literal.

It sounds to me as if you take most everything the Bible has to say as metaphorical. Would that be the general Baha'i perspective? I would agree that the Bible does contain a certain amount of metaphorical, symbolic and figurative language, but I don't see how you can possibly say that Exodus 33:11 (And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend) is symbolic. To me, it's almost saying: "Now understand, this really happened the way it is stated. Don't try to change the straightforward meaning of it."

Yup, sixty in July (the 28th actually.)

One day after my husband turns 65. I guess we're all getting up there.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

I;ve always found that particular verse strange--that God would "moon" the elders of Israel.

Regards,
Scott

Perhaps referring to the idea that while we may not always recognize when God is with us, in retrospect we can know where He's been.