About Baha'i's (Jesus, reject, Torah, gospel, blood)

[moegypt]

I have three main questions:

1- (61:6) And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of an Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!".

If Bah'Ullah is a prophet..Why we didn't find his name in Qur'an?


2- (14:4) We sent not an apostle except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom.

Arab is not the own people of Bah'Ullah... Why Kitab-al-aqds is arabic?

3- Why we find warnings from those who write the book then say"This is God word".
Sure... These warnings are for future not the past.

(2:79) Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

(6:93) Who can be more wicked than one who inventeth a lie against Allah, or saith, "I have received inspiration," when he hath received none, or (again) who saith, "I can reveal the like of what Allah hath revealed"? If thou couldst but see how the wicked (do fare) in the flood of confusion at death! - the angels stretch forth their hands, (saying),"Yield up your souls: this day shall ye receive your reward,- a penalty of shame, for that ye used to tell lies against Allah, and scornfully to reject of His signs!"

[Popeyesays]

1) If Muhammed is a Prophet why do we not find His name in the Bible? And, no, we don't--at least not with any clairy.

2) Since the conquest of Persia, Arabic was the religious langauge of Persia, not Farsi. Also the message of Baha`u'llah was not just to the Persians.

3) "Thy vision is obscured by the belief that divine revelation ended with the coming of Muhammad, and unto this We have borne witness in Our first epistle. Indeed, He Who hath revealed verses unto Muhammad, the Apostle of God, hath likewise revealed verses unto Ali-Muhammad. For who else but God can reveal to a man such clear and manifest verses as overpower all the learned? Since thou hast acknowledged the revelation of Muhammad, the Apostle of God, then there is no other way open before thee but to testify that whatever is revealed by the Primal Point hath also proceeded from God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Is it not true that the Qur'án hath been sent down from God and that all men are powerless before its revelation? Likewise these words have also been revealed by God, if thou dost but perceive."
(The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 31)


Regards,

Scott

[Popeyesays]

Places the name of Baha`u'llah appears in the Qur'an:
"God hath not begotten offspring; neither is there any other God with
Him: else had each god assuredly taken away that which he had created, and
some had assuredly uplifted themselves above others! Far from the glory of
God, be what they affirm of Him!
(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 23 - The Believers)

Produce your Book if ye speak truth.
And they make him to be of kin with the Djinn: but the Djinn have long
known that these idolaters shall be brought up before God.
Far be the glory of God from what they impute to him.
(Surah 37:16)

"He is God beside whom there is no god: He is the King, the Holy, the
Peaceful, the Faithful, the Guardian, the Mighty, the Strong, the Most High!
Far be the Glory of God from that which they united with Him!"
(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 59 - The Emigration)

"128. Now hath come unto you a Messenger from amongst yourselves: it grieves him that ye should perish: ardently anxious is he over you: to the believers is he most kind and merciful.
129. But if they turn away, Say: "Allah sufficeth me: there is no god but He: on Him is my trust, He the Lord of the throne (of Glory) Supreme!"
(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 9)

Regards,

Scott

[ayani]

but these verse seem to be referring to Allah, not to a later prophet. true, Baha'u'llah means "glory of God", but the passages you quote, Scott, refer to God only, not to a person or prophet.

[moegypt]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

Places the name of Baha`u'llah appears in the Qur'an:
"God hath not begotten offspring; neither is there any other God with
Him: else had each god assuredly taken away that which he had created, and
some had assuredly uplifted themselves above others! Far from the glory of
God, be what they affirm of Him!
(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 23 - The Believers)

Produce your Book if ye speak truth.
And they make him to be of kin with the Djinn: but the Djinn have long
known that these idolaters shall be brought up before God.
Far be the glory of God from what they impute to him.
(Surah 37:16)

"He is God beside whom there is no god: He is the King, the Holy, the
Peaceful, the Faithful, the Guardian, the Mighty, the Strong, the Most High!
Far be the Glory of God from that which they united with Him!"
(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 59 - The Emigration)

"128. Now hath come unto you a Messenger from amongst yourselves: it grieves him that ye should perish: ardently anxious is he over you: to the believers is he most kind and merciful.
129. But if they turn away, Say: "Allah sufficeth me: there is no god but He: on Him is my trust, He the Lord of the throne (of Glory) Supreme!"
(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 9)

Regards,

Scott

I don't know your view in first Aya (belivers).. So clarify it to me please.

In the second ayat you mentioned it is not (37:16) it is ( 37: 157-159).

I invite you to read what is above you quoted:


151. Is it not that they say, from their own invention,
152. "(Allah) has begotten children"? but they are liars!
153. Did He (then) choose daughters rather than sons?
154. What is the matter with you? How judge ye?
155. Will ye not then receive admonition?
156. Or have ye an authority manifest?
157. Then bring ye your Book (of authority) if ye be truthful!
158. And they have invented a blood-relationship between Him and the Jinns: but the Jinns know (quite well) that they have indeed to appear (before his Judgment- Seat)! 159. Glory to Allah. (He is free) from the things they ascribe (to Him)!

talking is about the Torah (the old tesatment).. Talking is to who say "the God has a son"..
What is the relation between this and Bah'ullah?!...

I don't also what is the relation between your third quote and Bah'Ullah??

In your fourth quote:

This Aya is talk about Mohammad (PBUH).about islam prophet. God told us this.

[moegypt]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

1) If Muhammed is a Prophet why do we not find His name in the Bible? And, no, we don't--at least not with any clairy.


Regards,

Scott

I will take it one by one:

What do you say abou this aya:

(61:6) And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of an Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by moegypt

I will take it one by one:

What do you say abou this aya:

(61:6) And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of an Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"

First this is a quote from the Qur'an, not the Gospel.

Second it is based on a misquote conerning the "Paraclete" concept.

Please understand I believe the Prophet Muhammed is the Comforter foretold by Christ, but Muhammed is not named as "Ahmad" in the Gospel.

Paraclete means "Comforter", not "Most Praised". Ahmad means "Praised".

Regards,
Scott

[Popeyesays]

Ayani, and Mo,

My point is that the phrase "Glory of God" is common to the Torah, the Gospel and the Qur'an. And it is not more of a stretch to logic to say these occurences are "naming" the next Prophet than to say the "His name shall be praised (Ahmad)." is naming Muhammed.

That isn't the case in either situation. The same argument is applicable to both, and you have made my original poinbt for me, thank you.

Regards,
Scott

[ayani]

Scott-

i realize it isn't easy to tackle issues of "this refers to this prophet, so my faith is valid". it is difficult to hear one's faith decried as "wrong", and one does desire for scriptural back-up to validate one's faith.

but the Quranic verses you quote do not refer to any coming messenger or mahdi, but to Allah, to God. the point of the Quran is not Messenger Mohammad, nor any coming person. the point of the Quran is to encourage human kind to consider the signs of Allah, to worship Him, to be patient and faithful in this life.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by ayani

Scott-

i realize it isn't easy to tackle issues of "this refers to this prophet, so my faith is valid". it is difficult to hear one's faith decried as "wrong", and one does desire for scriptural back-up to validate one's faith.

but the Quranic verses you quote do not refer to any coming messenger or mahdi, but to Allah, to God. the point of the Quran is not Messenger Mohammad, nor any coming person. the point of the Quran is to encourage human kind to consider the signs of Allah, to worship Him, to be patient and faithful in this life.

Absolutely.

The point of the Gospel is just the same.

Regards,
Scott