Man Without A Country (Jesus, moral, Moses, Earth, gospel)

[jacquie4000]

Very interesting article.

I would like to believe a nation is this:
As William Lloyd Garrison uses it in "Our country is the world, our countrymen are all mankind" I liken it to the concept of Beloved Community.

I would say a county is defined by borders and it's people having a common language and culture.

Then I would have to add that it becomes even more defined in small communites within the country.

Reguardless I believe their will always be violence.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

Can there be people in groups without violent disputes? Sometimes I think that wrapping our identity up in external things like country, family, political philosophy, religion, etc. means that struggles for made up things become struggles for existence and survival. And in such struggles, violence is inevitable, isn't it?

In any government (or central authority) I think violence, or at least the threat of punishment, is inherent. There is both internal policekeeping and external protection of borders.

The beloved community, the government of God, and the citizen of the world are all principles by which individuals can guide their lives. The cohesive force has to be the attactive impetus of love. It can't be imposed...it can only be chosen.

So, practical reality is the tension between these two.

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by Victor

I've always seen a country as a group of people who share a common border who pretty much value the same things.

Who is your neighbor, Victor? Who is your King? (These are rhetorical questions and not aimed at challenging your faith.)

Hebrews 11:13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. NIV

[Pariah]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

Perhaps. Why do you say "biologically"? Can language and social reality be adapted to break down barriers between group identities instead of just building them?

No doubt.
I can't imagine that doppelganger on Religious Forums is the only person willing to say, as the great Diogenes said, ""I am a citizen of the whole world". Needless to say, not everyone thinks as you do.

The only solution I can see is an economic one - an EU for the entire world. Culture, especially in capitalist nations, seems intertwined with financial stability and economic expansion - if we sell music, literature, etc. across borders, from country to country, it might be possible to soften or "loosen" the chains of political lines.

Of course, it could simply to serve emphasize each country, thereby strengthening cultural identities. This, however, would not be a bad thing. Emphasizing ones identity while doing the same with others speaks of a powerful form of individualism without conflict.

[Wandered Off]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

No, the Gospel has everything do with seeing myself in the joys and sufferings of others. It is non-resistance.

While I agree with a great deal of this, I can't bring myself to be convinced that non-resistance is always the best course. My own probably flawed reasoning tells me there isn't an afterlife I can wait on for bliss. When someone is trying to force me to live in a way I don't want to, why shouldn't I resist? As I see it, this life is all I have.

Of course, some stuff isn't worth dying for, but there are times when passively taking whatever someone else decides makes it not worth living for either, IMO. Non-resistance in all things can carry with it the practical implication that my own wants are of less value than anyone else's.

Is there a balance, or did I misinterpret non-resistance as presented?

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by Wandered Off

Of course, some stuff isn't worth dying for, but there are times when passively taking whatever someone else decides makes it not worth living for either, IMO. Non-resistance in all things can carry with it the practical implication that my own wants are of less value than anyone else's.

You raise some excellent concerns, WO, that are well worth investigating. Do think "death" is a metaphor for something, or is it a "thing" in itself? What does "death" represent to you?

[Wandered Off]

Hmmm... Well, certainly death can be a metaphor for something - some kind of change, letting go of past behaviors or attitudes perhaps. I guess I was not really looking at it that way when these questions were percolating in my head though.

I have to confess that viewing so much metaphorically is still very new to me, Dopp. I've followed your posts since I got here, and they have opened up some incredible new perspectives for me. I even went out and got a Joseph Campbell book to help me out. I am still not very good at it, though. Sometimes, metaphor and mythology seem to add unnecessary layers of interpretation that for me more often end up obscuring the point rather than clarifying it. I think the problem is mine, however.

I guess the best definition I can come up with off the top of my head is that death is the end of my own perspective. Unless I can achieve some kind of enlightenment, that probably will coincide with the end of my bodily functions.

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by Wandered Off

Hmmm... Well, certainly death can be a metaphor for something - some kind of change, letting go of past behaviors or attitudes perhaps. I guess I was not really looking at it that way when these questions were percolating in my head though.

That's okay, that transition from the way we see "the world out there" to the metaphorical representations doing their work "in here," is something I consider incomparably valuable. Unfortunately, other than metaphor and parables, I don't think there's another way to convey this transition.