Is Being Gay Ok If You're Born That Way? (Earth, homosexuality)

[Fluffy]

No for so many reasons.

Firstly, the majority of Christians do not see homosexuality as a sin. They view sex between members of the same sex as a sin. Homosexuality is not condemned in the Bible because it did not exist as a concept until recently.

Confusion arises because some Christians still deny this concept is real and so they refer to homosexual sex as "homosexuality". However, they clearly mean something entirely different from the way you are using it since it is not possible to be born in the act of having homosexual sex.

Therefore, a clear loophole exists: "Some people have a higher genetic tendency to have homosexual sex (ie homosexuality) than others but they are still personally responsible for giving into that sinful urge just as with any other sin".

Secondly, there is no justification given in the Bible, or by any Christian, for why homosexuality is a sin. Arguments are vulnerable to attack at two points: Its premises and the way its premises are used to form a conclusion. The Bible does not provide any premises and so there is nothing to attack, no reason that could possibly be given to contradict the assertion that homosexual sex is wrong short of God making a new law. In other words, with no reason given, it is irrelevant whether homosexuality is genetic because there is nothing there to argue against.

Having said all that, I'm sure that such a finding would make some Christians reconsider their position on homosexuality and homosexual sex but it would not be rational for them to do so. There are plenty of rational reasons to do so but not on this level of argument and too many call into question too much of the rest of Christianity to make them viable at this point in time.

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by Fluffy

No for so many reasons.

Firstly, the majority of Christians do not see homosexuality as a sin. They view sex between members of the same sex as a sin. Homosexuality is not condemned in the Bible because it did not exist as a concept until recently.

Confusion arises because some Christians still deny this concept is real and so they refer to homosexual sex as "homosexuality". However, they clearly mean something entirely different from the way you are using it since it is not possible to be born in the act of having homosexual sex.

Therefore, a clear loophole exists: "Some people have a higher genetic tendency to have homosexual sex (ie homosexuality) than others but they are still personally responsible for giving into that sinful urge just as with any other sin".

I disagree.
The Bible flat out states that a man having sex with another man is a sin.

Lev 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

The Bible also flat out states that even thinking about having sex with another is the SAME SIN as actually having sex with that other.

Mat 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Now, how does one define the term 'homosexual?'

Main Entry: 1ho·mo·sex·u·al
Pronunciation: \ˌhō-mə-ˈsek-sh(ə-)wəl, -ˈsek-shəl\
Function: adjective
Date: 1892
1 : of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex
2 : of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex

Function: noun
Date: 1892
: a homosexual person and especially a male

Originally Posted by Fluffy

Secondly, there is no justification given in the Bible, or by any Christian, for why homosexuality is a sin. Arguments are vulnerable to attack at two points: Its premises and the way its premises are used to form a conclusion. The Bible does not provide any premises and so there is nothing to attack, no reason that could possibly be given to contradict the assertion that homosexual sex is wrong short of God making a new law. In other words, with no reason given, it is irrelevant whether homosexuality is genetic because there is nothing there to argue against.

I agree.
And for any Christian to present any reason other than "God said so" is merely presenting their opinion as to the why.

Originally Posted by Fluffy

Having said all that, I'm sure that such a finding would make some Christians reconsider their position on homosexuality and homosexual sex but it would not be rational for them to do so. There are plenty of rational reasons to do so but not on this level of argument and too many call into question too much of the rest of Christianity to make them viable at this point in time.

Seems to me that it is one of those things that they will have to take on faith.
That Homosexuality is a sin and that God offers no reasons as to why.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by Mestemia

I disagree.


The Bible flat out states that a man having sex with another man is a sin.

Lev 20:13

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

This quote says nothing about female homosexuality.

Originally Posted by Mestemia

The Bible also flat out states that even thinking about having sex with another is the SAME SIN as actually having sex with that other.

Mat 5:28

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

And this quote specifically says "on a woman".

So... lesbians are all right as long as they don't lust adulterously, and gay men can't have sex, though lusting's okay?

Originally Posted by Mestemia

And for any Christian to present any reason other than "God said so" is merely presenting their opinion as to the why.


Seems to me that it is one of those things that they will have to take on faith.
That Homosexuality is a sin and that God offers no reasons as to why.

Much like wearing blended fabrics and not reaping the edges of your field, right?

[Random]

Sorry to be a dud, but how does one know (or how can one verify) that one is "born gay"? Seriously...how?

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin

This quote says nothing about female homosexuality.




And this quote specifically says "on a woman".

So... lesbians are all right as long as they don't lust adulterously, and gay men can't have sex, though lusting's okay?

Much like wearing blended fabrics and not reaping the edges of your field, right?

So sorry.
I was unawares that the topic was on ONLY one or the other...

It does strike me as interesting how so many people spend so much time looking for 'loopholes.'

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by Random

Sorry to be a dud, but how does one know (or how can one verify) that one is "born gay"? Seriously...how?

Same methods as for any study of genetic traits: examining the genes of related people, "separated twin" studies, etc.

Also, some studies have looked to see if there's a correlation between homosexuality and traits that are known to be set during development in the womb; this doesn't determine causation, but when a strong correlation develops, it indicates that both are set early in development.

Religioustolerance.org has summaries and links to a few studies, as well as commentary on both sides of the issue, here.

Originally Posted by Mestemia

So sorry.
I was unawares that the topic was on ONLY one or the other...

It does strike me as interesting how so many people spend so much time looking for 'loopholes.'

Well, if one group is going to scour the Bible looking for snippets to condemn the other side, doesn't it make sense that the condemned group will do the same to defend themselves?

[Random]

Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin

Same methods as for any study of genetic traits: examining the genes of related people, "separated twin" studies, etc.

Also, some studies have looked to see if there's a correlation between homosexuality and traits that are known to be set during development in the womb; this doesn't determine causation, but when a strong correlation develops, it indicates that both are set early in development.

Religioustolerance.org has summaries and links to a few studies, as well as commentary on both sides of the issue, here.

Okay, so the answer is because the scientists say so and because gay people are genetically predispositioned to be homosexual. Hmm...

Perhaps I'm being a stuffy literalist when it comes to Evolutionary biology, but why would natural selection preserve (select) the genes (of homosexuality) which did not serve the evolutionary purpose of reproduction? Why would Nature engender a sexuality that by its very condition is not conducive to the contiuity of genetic material (since gays cannot reproduce with each other biologically)?

I'll have to ask a proper biologist about that one when I get the chance...