Biblical Truth? (Jesus Christ, priests, salvation, tradition, contradiction)

[Arrow]

I kind of feel like i am in between a rock and a hard place. On one hand i have been raised pretty much as a "reformed" Christian, but I have recently been studying Catholicism and I am left with a really crappy question. Who is to claim that they are correct? I guess where I am getting stuck is that I see both sides and how they come to their conclusions in a rational way of though, but at the same time they cannot both be correct. So i guess my question is how are we supposed to know? Or perhaps the Bible is a contradiction and the result of breaking away from the Catholic Church is just a physical manifestation of the Bible's contradictions.

[rocka21]

Originally Posted by Arrow

I kind of feel like i am in between a rock and a hard place. On one hand i have been raised pretty much as a "reformed" Christian, but I have recently been studying Catholicism and I am left with a really crappy question. Who is to claim that they are correct? I guess where I am getting stuck is that I see both sides and how they come to their conclusions in a rational way of though, but at the same time they cannot both be correct. So i guess my question is how are we supposed to know? Or perhaps the Bible is a contradiction and the result of breaking away from the Catholic Church is just a physical manifestation of the Bible's contradictions.

Can of worms- ----- open here.

i think the whole protestant move was based on the thought the catholic chruch got to far into man made traditions that made the word of God to no effect. there is a big list on things some christians think the cathloic church is in error on. Now that has spawed into MANY different chruches and doctrines.

don't worry thou...... in Pauls short time here , he spent alot of time trying to get the early chruch doctrinly correct also.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Arrow

I kind of feel like i am in between a rock and a hard place. On one hand i have been raised pretty much as a "reformed" Christian, but I have recently been studying Catholicism and I am left with a really crappy question.

Do you mean Reformed? I asked just out of curiousity, as I was raised Reformed myself.

Who is to claim that they are correct? I guess where I am getting stuck is that I see both sides and how they come to their conclusions in a rational way of though, but at the same time they cannot both be correct. So i guess my question is how are we supposed to know? Or perhaps the Bible is a contradiction and the result of breaking away from the Catholic Church is just a physical manifestation of the Bible's contradictions.

Maybe your question is a bit too black and white, Arrow. Aren't there several possibilities here? Maybe one group is right about some stuff and the other group right about other stuff. And (which I am not saying) there's the possibility that both are wrong.

Being an ex-Reformed who married an ex-Catholic, I see value in many of the ideas put out by both.

[rocka21]

Originally Posted by Booko

Do you mean Reformed? I asked just out of curiousity, as I was raised Reformed myself.



Maybe your question is a bit too black and white, Arrow. Aren't there several possibilities here? Maybe one group is right about some stuff and the other group right about other stuff. And (which I am not saying) there's the possibility that both are wrong.

Being an ex-Reformed who married an ex-Catholic, I see value in many of the ideas put out by both.

True,

i think where we get in trouble is when we think OUR church is the only RIGHT church.

thats what happens with most denomonations, they get a revalation from god , then package it, box it up, and grow old, cold, and outdated, and will fight if there is any change.

see ....... all the old churches in your city with the song books from the 50's , old people inside, needs a new coat of paint, cant raise money to pave the parking lot, no one getting saved, delivered off drugs, etc.

as long as they have there NAME, TITLE, and DOCTRINE

[*Paul*]

Originally Posted by Arrow

I kind of feel like i am in between a rock and a hard place. On one hand i have been raised pretty much as a "reformed" Christian, but I have recently been studying Catholicism and I am left with a really crappy question. Who is to claim that they are correct? I guess where I am getting stuck is that I see both sides and how they come to their conclusions in a rational way of though, but at the same time they cannot both be correct. So i guess my question is how are we supposed to know? Or perhaps the Bible is a contradiction and the result of breaking away from the Catholic Church is just a physical manifestation of the Bible's contradictions.

It comes down to two choices really, at least in my mind.

1) The bible is true and is fully sufficient for godly living and pointing you to salvation through Jesus Christ. From it you can learn without the assistance of bishops and priests how you can come into a relationship with God through His Son by His Holy Spirit through the atonement and to instruct how you can live in a way pleasing to Him.

2)The bible is true but is not enough as a revelation but instead needs further clarification and supplementation by councils of church leaders and bishops to tell you what is the true interpretation of scripture which includes submitting to the interpretation they give you.

Maybe I have put a protestant spin on things here but i've tried to be fair about the choice each of us protestants has to make.

Heads up for the who gave us the bible barrage.

[ChristineES]

Why don't you forget the dogma and just worship the Lord? The Bible tells everyone(who follows Jesus) what they need to do. The apostles didn't need their own denomination.

[wizanda]

Worship and have faith in God, would be Biblical truth.....the rest is Anti-Christ.
Considering this thread is if people are marked with 66 books or a full Bible to understand with....
Truth can only be ever understood, if you see the full picture and not just half.

[athanasius]

Originally Posted by *Paul*

It comes down to two choices really, at least in my mind.

1) The bible is true and is fully sufficient for godly living and pointing you to salvation through Jesus Christ. From it you can learn without the assistance of bishops and priests how you can come into a relationship with God through His Son by His Holy Spirit through the atonement and to instruct how you can live in a way pleasing to Him.

2)The bible is true but is not enough as a revelation but instead needs further clarification and supplementation by councils of church leaders and bishops to tell you what is the true interpretation of scripture which includes submitting to the interpretation they give you.

Maybe I have put a protestant spin on things here but i've tried to be fair about the choice each of us protestants has to make.

Heads up for the who gave us the bible barrage.

I think you did a fine job for the most part Paul. I would of coarse add apostolic Tradition(2 Thess 2;15) which we Catholics believe is the oral word of God not necessarily written in the scripture explicitly to you already good understanding of number 2. I should also point out to you that priest and individual bishops do not interpret the bible for Catholics. There are only 8 passages of the bible that are infallibly interpreted by the church. They are interpreted by the Magisterium, the Pope and the Bishops in union with him. Then Sacred Apostolic tradition also helps us interpret some passages. This does not mean that a Catholic cannot think for himself or cannot have any other interpretation. Catholics have alot of freedom in this area. Scriptures are polyvalent(Have many levels of meaning) and one passage can have a several different meanings. The Catholic can have other interpretations he just must not deny the churches interpretations on those 8 passages. That is what truly separates us.

I would study church history and the formulation of the Canon Namely the Councils of Rome 382, Hippo 393, carthage 397, Florence 1439, Trent 1546 etc) to understand the bible better and where it came from and then I think this will help the reformed gentlemen get a bigger picture of the problem and see the differences.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Is it your intent/preference that this be a Christian-only or theist-only discussion?