Creation vs. Evolution (Earth, Eden, genesis, eternal, bible)

[inca]

I will. Yet the prior message was not for him. It was for you because you shall be fair and eliminate some of his messages as well. So please, apply the rules NOT ONLY FOR ME. Don't tolerate his "ramble on" too as you don't tolerate mine. My last post I was not fussing about him only. If you read carefully you'll notice additional information REGARDING THE THEME.
And perhaps you allow me to say the astrophysicist Fred Hoyle, the physicist Paul Davies and Hubert Yockey, the chemist Michael Polanyi, the particle physicist Roger Penrose and also Hawkins and Roger Penrose have discussed important issue about randomic possibilities:
http://www.taemag.com/issues/article...cle_detail.asp
The previous post of the scientist I mentioned before, I hope you read it. And if somebody wants to have a chat with him can write him to agree or disagree to:
dchakalov@surfeu.at
Thanks for your kind and subtle invitation to withdraw. I hope you can extend the invitation to U-know-who.

[Green Gaia]

Inca, I saw no one else taking this thread so personally as to hurl personal insults at another poster, that is why no one else's posts were deleted.

This is a debate, so here is my final suggestion to you: If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Any further posts not on topic will be deleted or edited accordingly.

Maize

[(Q)]

So I just wrote him asking how come he knows if a "cherub" is not made by matter as well and is trapped in Planck dimension?

There is Planck time and Planck length – which do you refer?

Even so, if cherubs existed it would be unlikely at the Planck level considering matter is little more than a wave function.

How come he knows if the medium used is something in Hertz frequence or perhaps with the influence of chemical structures as psylocibine in mushrooms or Ayahuasca similar to serotonine or other hallucinogenic stuff acting like a key-lock in the brain?

Because it would be detected.

How come he explains that people who are not squizophrenic have witnessed odd experiences in ancient megalithic temples

They’re lying?

why anthropologists and Dr. Dan Burisch, Ph.D in Molecular Biology and Biological System would expose themselves and their reputation to ridiculous with things like these

Please don’t confuse anthropologists with the likes of Dr. Dan. This guy is the poster child of kooks. Biowarfare, mind-melds with a living extraterrestrial, daily angel visits, designer viruses that incorporate lethal ET strains, stargate transmissions, remote viewing, astrology, Catholic-mysticism, Judaic-kaballa, human subjects, abductions, treaties with extraterrestrials, area-51, abducted when 9 years old, a Ganesh particle that conveys healing and possibly immortality, covert operations, pole shifts, 2012, fate of the planet, black ops, broken bones from heavy-handed handlers, 4" x 1/4" scar up the back of his head. The good doctor has it all.

But even before that I had to explain the physics we read in books look like metaphysic

There are no physics in metaphysics – that’s why it’s called metaphysics. It’s more pseudoscience.

We don't know if gravity is a real force with real gravitons or if it's an illusion due to the deformation of the universe

Gravity is hardly an illusion, is not a force according to general relativity and if gravitons are observed they most likely will be real.

we don't know if we're gonna end in a Big Rip or Big Crunch

The universe is expanding at an accelerating rate – no Big Rips or Crunches or even Farts.

we don't know what is the almost 80 % "nothingness" and "vacuum" of the universe and have a bunch of contradictory theories but they call it "science

What theories exactly are contradictory?

and then others say (in Scientific American) everything is an illusion like Matrix hollogram created by binary or other codes saying the "visible" Universe has at least 10 followed by 100 zeros bits of entropy

Sciam is a magazine in which almost anyone can get published who has a theory, valid or not. Of course, if someone quotes “bits of entropy,” they probably have no idea what they’re talking about.

So, he was humble enough to admit

So what? You said he was “this guy.”

That happens with real scientists and not amateurs who think they can discuss about science

Then could you please leave the science to the scientists? Thanks muchly.

I don't have to provide every single site or name or page of the book to satisfy the skepticism that went to cynical field long ago. I DON'T HAVE TO PROVIDE ALL THE NAMES AND DATA

Then you have no idea what are the fundamentals of discussion and debate. Could that be the reason why you get banned from forums? Hmmm…

Do I have to write the scientists personal e-mail to satisfy somebody's "interest in science" or the stupid messages the moderator allowed him?

If you make claims you must provide the sources of those claims, otherwise you’re just blowing smoke out your @ss.

[inca]

I wonder why the moderator allows YOU to say my @ss is blowing smoke out???????? And nobody asks you to quote your source. Who cares really? Back to the point:
Planck time or Planck lenght? Please define a UNIQUE definition of time accepted by every scientists in the world and WHY would be unlikly at Planck level for a cherub to act in a wave function. In fact if we believe what religious account explain they can act in a wave function.
You say Hert frequence or the action of hallucinogenic would be detected. Please refer the tests and names of scientists who have been doing tests in that sense with shamans or people who immediately after they take drugs they attempt to kill their kids. This doesn't happen in all cases so how do the scientists knew to make the proper "measures" in the right time?
Cheap argument everytime there's no scientific answer you say repeated experiences must be all lies!
There is no physics in metaphysics you say. I say, there's a lot of metaphysics in a "science" called physics.
If Einstein believed gravity is an illusion due to deformation of space, I'll rather believe HIM than other respected points of view. Or at least wait to see IF (conditional again) IF gravitons are observed or likely to be real than accepting this as fact. It's not a fact, it's another speculation that remains to be check in the future.
The universe is expanding many scientists believe. But not everybody believes that. Some of them think is another illusion created by the curvature of the cosmos. IF (again a conditional, not a fact) IF the universe is expanding (I don't see why not but it's still need to be proved) THAT'S WHY some scientists believe the universe will end in a Big Rip. We don't know if there's gonna be or not a Big Crunch among other reasons cos we don't know if some particles have enough mass permiting the Big Crunch. It's believed not but then again we don't know yet. Until then the ????? is open. Not closed as Q pretends it to be.
The idea of Matrix universe is not done by amateur knowing LESS than Q but experts, so I gave the names and I repeat them again: Jacob B. Bekenstein, professor of Theoretial Physics at Hebrew Univ in Jerusalem, recipient of Rothschild Prize and John Wheeler. Perhaps we need to see your works printed in Scientific American
If those names are not enough, any reader can search physicist David Bohm from London University, expert in quantum field and neurophysiologist Karl Pribram from Stanford University.
Q says: Please don’t confuse anthropologists with the likes of Dr. Dan. This guy is the poster child of kooks. Biowarfare, mind-melds with a living extraterrestrial, daily angel visits, designer viruses that incorporate lethal ET strains, stargate transmissions, remote viewing, astrology, Catholic-mysticism, Judaic-kaballa, human subjects, abductions, treaties with extraterrestrials, area-51, abducted when 9 years old, a Ganesh particle that conveys healing and possibly immortality, covert operations, pole shifts, 2012, fate of the planet, black ops, broken bones from heavy-handed handlers, 4" x 1/4" scar up the back of his head. The good doctor has it all. "
No. That's not the case. That's a general statement done to answer anything to disregard the scientists after reading general themes in the site. Dan only studies Ganesh particle.

[inca]

And then again I say to the readers. Investigate and contact the scientists mention in the sites. Ask them personal questions. Don't take for granted what books have been saying.
Even scientists admit Big Bang, Big Rip or Big Chill are just theories, speculations with many "holes". In this case the Big Rip theory is cos the mysterious dark energy that seems to be pulling universe apart.
www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993461
www.arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0302506
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030303.html
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030212.html
Illusion of expansion:
www.geocities.com/wlodekj/sci/3261.htm
Spherical universe?:
www.spacedaily.com/news/cosmology-01f.html
And then again, all written by respected scientists. Do I want the readers to believe ME? Not at all! I wouldn't insult your intelligence. It's up to everyone believe what he (she) chooses to believe in ignorance or not.

[inca]

Is it time an illusion?
http://www.zealous.org/bestposts/vie...=28&rand=1
or gravity?:
http://einstein.stanford.edu/content...ity/q1105.html
http://einstein.stanford.edu/content...ity/q1669.html
http://einstein.stanford.edu/content...ity/q2869.html
http://einstein.stanford.edu/content...ity/q2758.html
http://einstein.stanford.edu/content...ity/q2090.html
http://einstein.stanford.edu/content...ity/q1988.html
http://einstein.stanford.edu/content...ity/q1748.html
www.csmonitor.com/2004/0506/p14s01-stss.html
Perhaps the arc is an illusion when throwing the apple. What would it like in a free fall?
http://home.hockaday.org/HockadayNet...lusionVid.html
http://home.hockaday.org/HockadayNet...oteseinst.html
In the Bible in Greek it's said Satan can transfigured or disguised as "light" (phosphorous in Greek). Interesting this:
http://einstein.stanford.edu/content...ity/q2869.html
http://einstein.stanford.edu/content...ity/q1215.html
("local " theory)
http://einstein.stanford.edu/content...ity/q1182.html
http://einstein.stanford.edu/content...ity/q1188.html

[painted wolf]

Originally Posted by inca

In fact if we believe what religious account explain they can act in a wave function

ok.. here is the problem... we cant just take what religious accounts say because religious accounts can be flawed...

religious accounts have bats being birds and bugs having four feet not six...

they have the world sitting on four elephants standing on the back of a giant turtle.
and so on and so forth...

Originally Posted by inca

Cheap argument everytime there's no scientific answer you say repeated experiences must be all lies!

inca, you cant clame that your arguments are scientific and science based and then get upset when you are asked for proof...
science is all about showing repeatable and demonstratable proof...
not just proposing wacky theories...
psersonal ancetdotes are not proof... people can be mistaken and misinterpret what they see.

once uppon a time people used to see unicorns and mermaids and we have hundreds of medieval images of these beasts and mentions in the bible.
It doesn't make Unicorns real now does it.
why... there is no proof of them.

wa:-do

[(Q)]

Please define a UNIQUE definition of time accepted by every scientists in the world

I would be happy to do that in a new thread.

WHY would be unlikly at Planck level for a cherub to act in a wave function

Because cherubs don’t exist, silly.

Please refer the tests and names of scientists who have been doing tests in that sense with shamans or people who immediately after they take drugs they attempt to kill their kids.

Huh? What are you ranting about?

I say, there's a lot of metaphysics in a "science" called physics.

If the links you’ve provided were any indication, it would be easy to conclude you know nothing about physics. So, it is most likely you will find a lot of Greek in physics as well.

If Einstein believed gravity is an illusion due to deformation of space, I'll rather believe HIM

Einstein came up with General Relativity, which describes gravity as the interaction between mass and spacetime. This is not an illusion nor had he ever stated it was an illusion.

The universe is expanding many scientists believe. But not everybody believes that. Some of them think is another illusion created by the curvature of the cosmos.

Pure nonsense. No one with a brain in his or her head thinks the expanding universe is an illusion. What have they been smoking?

IF the universe is expanding (I don't see why not but it's still need to be proved)

YOU would need to understand physics and the observational evidence in favor of an expanding universe. So, with that in mind it is unlikely you’ll ever see why.

We don't know if there's gonna be or not a Big Crunch among other reasons cos we don't know if some particles have enough mass permiting the Big Crunch. It's believed not but then again we don't know yet. Until then the ????? is open. Not closed as Q pretends it to be.

Putting words in mouth again? Or are you simply unable to comprehend English? I never said the universe is open or closed. And in fact, it is neither – the universe is flat.

The idea of Matrix universe is not done by amateur knowing LESS than Q but experts, so I gave the names and I repeat them again: Jacob B. Bekenstein, professor of Theoretial Physics at Hebrew Univ in Jerusalem, recipient of Rothschild Prize and John Wheeler.

Your posts are a wasteland of fallacies in the extreme. The fallacy above is known as “Appeal to Authority”.

The Matrix was a movie. Movies are not real. Hollywood deals in fantasy. Read a book.

Perhaps we need to see your works printed in Scientific American

Why would I bother to do that?

If those names are not enough, any reader can search physicist David Bohm from London University, expert in quantum field and neurophysiologist Karl Pribram from Stanford University.

Wow! You have an amazing talent for dropping names - Appeal to Authority.

No. That's not the case. That's a general statement done to answer anything to disregard the scientists after reading general themes in the site. Dan only studies Ganesh particle.

Yes, that is the comprehensive bio on Dr. Dan. He is a kook in the extreme. The Ganesh particle is pure pseudoscience based entirely on conjecture. One of the key concepts is that this particle is supposed to be the gridwork for an alien communication device.

Are we sane yet?

Investigate and contact the scientists mention in the sites. Ask them personal questions. Don't take for granted what books have been saying.

Oh sure, just toss out those textbooks in favor of emails to kooks and cranks. Is it any wonder no one takes you seriously?

Even scientists admit Big Bang, Big Rip or Big Chill are just theories, speculations with many "holes".

And of course its probably a big waste of time asking you to show why exactly the Big Bang Theory has many holes. Do you even understand the evidence?

And then again, all written by respected scientists. Do I want the readers to believe ME? Not at all! I wouldn't insult your intelligence It's up to everyone believe what he (she) chooses to believe in ignorance or not.

You’ve been insulting everyones intelligence in almost every post you make. And again, your choice in what you consider “respected scientists” (Caldwell) is another kook - Phantom energy, indeed.

Is it time an illusion?… or gravity?:

I think you don’t actually read the links you provide. Those links say nothing about gravity being an illusion.

You ARE blowing smoke out your @ss.

[inca]

Yap, you bet I appeat to authority of the ones who don't make science fiction but science. The one farting here is you, Mr Q. AND AGAIN THE MODERATOR IS ALLOWING YOUR KIND MESSAGES TO ME and not erasing them. The wasteland fallacies can be read in Scientific American, if you think anyone can publish there and don't respect the ones who have the scientific knowlledge , what can we do? The existence or not of cherubs must be prove, you're the silly. Microbes were unseen and non-existing until they were found. We don't have the proper devices event to see gravitons. An interpretation of what Einstein believe was given by scientists. I post the links where the reader can find the names if they want to ask them rather than your expertise I don't know in what field! I set the examples and names of scientist believing universe expansion can be a misunderstanding. If they are smoking been scientists themselves, perhaps you have to ask them to answer your questions.
Yes I read a book by Michael Talbot, interesting, have you? Mr. Dan did an experience with devices and quartz, did you? He's an expert in his field, you're expert on what field? It doesn't matter if I mention serious names here in a long list, all of them are kooks according to you. WHY ON EARTH IS THE MODERATOR LETTING THIS INDIVIDUAL KEEP ON WRITING THIS SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND OVER? CAN ANYONE RESPOND?
Yes I'm reading the links I'm providing. What happens is I let the reader decide instead of acting like you .

[inca]

www.geocities.com/newastronomy
Read how the issue is conflictive:
http://forums.armageddononline.org/a...hp/t-1275.html
The redshift is caused by Liou_Schwartzt's stretch effect or by Doppler effect?:
www.angelfire.com/ca6/aliou/expanduniverse.htm
www.ultimate-physics.de/smolin.htm
www.suppressedscience.net/physics.html