Ask about Jehovah's Witnesses (beliefs, choice, Satan, Adam and Eve)

[Green Gaia]

precept, was there a question in there somewhere for WitnessofJah about JWs, or was that just a big rant?

[precept]

Only the one posing as the witness of Jehovah is qualified to respond to the post.
Only those who are the true witnesses of Jehovah know His truth and teach His truth.
And only the true witnesses of Jehovah are able to identify the false witnesses who profess association with Jehovah.


precept

[Green Gaia]

Referring back to the OP:

The best way to benefit from this thread is to only ask questions if you sincerely want to know the answer. Please don't spam the thread simply to waste everyone's time.

Please stay on topic, precept. If you wish to start another thread, you are free to do so.

[SoulTYPE]

Originally Posted by precept

Only the one posing as the witness of Jehovah is qualified to respond to the post.

Um, Excuse me. Then what is the point of a board? if everyone wrote things like that, at the end of their post, a message board would soon collapse and die.

[robtex]

What have you learned about your community from going door to door......how has your door to door impacted one or two of them (as opposed to telling me about all of them) and has your preceptions changed from your door to door over the years?

[kreeden]

If I have stepped on anyone's toes , I do appologize . However , I had thought that this was an open debate thread ?

[precept]

Originally Posted by Maize

Referring back to the OP:



Please stay on topic, precept. If you wish to start another thread, you are free to do so.

The question posed to "Witness..." is a bonafide one. And the question Is:

What makes you think that the Watchtower devotees are the witnesses of Jehovah?


precept

[WitnessofJah]

First of all, I want to say that any kind of child abuse absolutely disgusts me and I hate it from the depth’s of my soul, and If I thought for one moment that my religion was harbouring these wicked people, the first thing I would do is dial 911 and I would leave without a second thought. In fact, the next time you see a JW in the street, ask them how they feel about paedophiles and you will get a response of utter disgust. Your post is very venomous and one sided, and I bet you don’t even care to listen to our side of the story, right? As a fact, in order to get the full picture you have to listen to what both sides have to say, and then draw your own conclusion. These websites that these people put up have actually done their job, by people like you believing every word they say, and guess what? It actually worked.

Originally Posted by linwood

You`ve got to be kidding me.

Originally Posted by linwood

The man who founded Silent Lambs was a witness for 40 years many of which were served as an elder and in high level adminstrative, managerial positions.

He is doing what he is doing now because he has the courage and freedom of thought that you lack.

http://silentlambs.org/personal_experiences/index.cfm

Much of what this “elder” has said has been bent and twisted to fit the conclusion he wants it to fit. People who don’t really understand what he’s saying will believe every word he say’s, and to the untrained eye, seems very convincing. However, since JW know exactly what he is talking about and can sift through what is correct and what is not simply by looking at it, it is very easy to tell that he has a hidden agenda/or has some kind of vendetta against us. Some of the things he say’s on that site simply amazes me. For example, he say’s that people with a history of sex offences (including paedophilia) are allowed to become an elder, a position of trust. This could not be further from the truth! Our organization has actually BANNED people who have serious sex offences to ever be in a position of trust. This is just one of many untruths that I found at that site.



As far as courage and freedom, we don’t suppress anybody to follow the laws of our religion. If they want to stay, we encourage them to do so, if they want to leave, that it entirely their call. It would be wrong for us to interfere with people’s personal lives to try and influence their decisions. We also never try to personally interfere with people’s thought, since that is a god-given right, and it would be wrong to do so.

The sheer number of "apostates" with serious accusations against the witnesses is enough support to look deeper into the matter.

Something you`ve apparently decided not to do and instead simply take what your elders tell you as gospel.

These very “elders” you speak about I personally know and are some of the nicest people you will ever meet. Most of these same “elders” you speak about have wife and children who they love dearly themselves and would never want that to happen to their children, in fact, they hate the act of paedophilia. And no, I do not take everything my elders say as “gospel”, because by nature, I am a very sceptical person. What you don’t seem to realize is that the elders don’t teach anything themselves, they teach from the Bible.



Ask yourself this question: Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses have a system in place in which we expel people for serious misconduct like fornication and adultery, but according that website you have shown, not paedophilia? It just doesn’t make any sense and their argument just does not add up.



In fact, if you look at our website, it actually gives good advice on how we can protect our children from this wicked act:



http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/1993/10/8a/article_01.htm

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/1993/10/8a/article_02.htm

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/1993/10/8a/article_03.htm



The above links are the same “Watchtower organization” that your ‘Silent Lambs’ founder said did not care about the welfare of children.

You would do your faith a great service if you and those like you would seek to find the truth for yourselves.

The problem cannot be fixed if it is continuously denied, the Catholic church at least seems to have gone some way towards this end with their own problems.

Not far perhaps but they have at least reached a point where denial is no longer possible.

I do understand that if you did this you too would be excommunicated.

Such is the nature of the faith.

We have never denied that it exists, but strongly deny the fact that we are accused of not doing anything, which is absurd. What people don’t seem to realize is that the victims are the society’s utmost priority, and also another top priority is of rooting the wicked people who are responsible.



I have also have to say this. Your blanket statements about Jehovah’s Witnesses have been nothing short of incredible. You have accused JW of saying things and doing things that I have never heard of in my entire time of being a JW! You neither provide references or evidence to support these “assumptions” of yours, and in fact, use these “points of yours” as an argument! A term you have used throughout this thread is “excommunicated”. Linwood, can you please explain to me your definition of ‘excommunicated’ in the JW faith? Also, what is your definition of “such is the nature of the faith”?


The real fact is that if I were to express my concern about this situation to my elders – I would NOT get excommunicated. The only time anybody gets expelled is when serious misconduct against the Bible is done, not because, I decided to accept there is a problem – which is not a sin – but because I disobeyed the Bible. If the elders were to excommunicate me for any other reason other than biblical violations, it would be gross misconduct on their part.

[WitnessofJah]

Don`t tell me this is the result of a "Few Disgruntled Apostates".

This is not a half truth as much of the rest of your posts here have been.

This is an outright lie.

The very system that the Witnesses have in place is designed to protect the pedophile.

There are numerous lawsuits and settlements going on right now.

Names are named, money has been paid, and people have been jailed.

You are either a deeply deeply immoral person or you are utterly ignorant.

Niether position is excusable.

I take deep personal offence at this. Are you implying that I am protecting paedophiles? Like I said before, if I knew a proved paedophile was in my in my congregation I would ring 911 and could’nt care less of the consequences. A question I would have to ask you is why would our organization protect the paedophile? Why? According to you, there is a reason. The fact is, behind every work is a motive, and unless you can show me what the motive is, the case is closed. And according to the website you posted, the motive is to protect our “image” which is absurd, if you bear in mind that we are not a business but a registered charity, and that all the workers of our organisation (including myself), and the governing body, do not even get a salary, and we also don’t even sell a product. So power is not at stake here, so what is the motive? My conclusion is that there is none, this is only a propaganda stunt to detract from what we preach from the Bible.



As far as me saying “half-lies” in every post of mine, could you kindly point them out? Because if you want to discuss them more, I would be happy to. I have not been giving my own opinion on your questions, but from the Bible, so it’s not me who you are rejecting, it’s the Bible. As Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Bible is the base of ALL our arguments, and never on personal opinions.

I won`t go into how you pick and choose which of Jesus` words to justify your stance on the Mosaic Laws considering you are using Biblical verse to defend Child Sexual Molestation it would seem far too trivial a point on my part.

If you want to discuss the Mosaic law some more, I would be happy to. There are many other passages in the Bible that I could show you which tells you the same thing. If you wish not to accept it, then there is nothing I can do, however, just because you don’t accept it, it does’nt mean it is not true.



As far as using Biblical verse to defend molestation, that accusation is appalling. You very well know that you attempted to entrap me by asking a simple question, and then when I also answered it in a simple manner, you accuse me of supporting paedophiles because of my lack of textual response. On that note, let me show you a scripture that CONDEMNS any form of sexually unrighteous act: 1 Corinthians 6:9: “What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men.” And also Leviticus 18:6: “YOU people must not come near, any man of YOU, to any close fleshly relative of his to lay bare nakedness. I am Jehovah”.

[WitnessofJah]

I urge anyone to simply Google the words "Jehovahs Witness" and "Pedophile " and be prepared to be astounded at the massive number of hits recieved from legitimate news, legal, and neutral religious organizations.

Google cannot be used as an acid test to decide one or the other. I could type in anything and it will come up with a response. Now down to the question: Have witnesses ever been abused in their history? I would say a few probably have, but some are questionable and most are fabricated. You have to remember that there are 6,000,000 JW out there and the number is still growing, and at the end of the day, the elders cannot police everybody and cannot control what happens behind every closed door. As JW, we were born with sin and are no more perfect than anybody else. You have to remember that every religion has it’s fair share of wicked people who refuse to follow the direction of their holy books, however, this cannot be reflected upon EVERY JW individual who make an effort to be good people and follow the word of the Bible. If people are abused, they are in their every right to report the incident to the police without the consent of the elders and they will not be punished for it. Linwood, we BOTH share common ground is the sense that we both HATE the act of paedophilia and the hope that God destroys these sick wicked people.



An official response by Jehovah’s Witness on this matter from their site:



http://www.jw-media.org/region/global/english/backgrounders/e_molestation.htm



And if you want to read the rest, you can download it from their directory:



http://www.jw-media.org/cgi-bin/lib/ProcessForm.pl?FormType=jwsw&inptQuery=Child%20abu se&optVerbosity=1&objBegin=1&objEnd=10

This cannot be changed until these people will come into the real world and admit the problem in order to work towards a solution.

This won`t happen with this cult.

I`m done with you witness, you`ve been ignored.

If I want lies and deception I`ll watch CSPAN.

We deny that it is widespread and rampant in our organization as people make out, but don’t deny that individual cases do occur. These people cannot be considered Jehovah’s Witnesses because of their wickedness, and God WILL destroy these people. Just like in every religion, there are always wicked people who “claim” to be a member of certain religion, when the actual truth is that they don’t follow any of God’s laws. What we believe in, the Bible, is a perfect, but unfortunately, the same cannot be said for every individual who follows it.

Some of you who may wonder why I despise religion as I do can look at this one and attempt to understand.

I am sorry you feel that way but all I can say to that is that what you have been told is not the entire truth, and until you actually know what our point of view is on the subject, you will never understand.