Derren Brown: Faith Killer? (ritual, mystic, beliefs, experience, atheist)

[Mister_T]

Originally Posted by Mr Spinkles

Yes. The only other alternative that I can think of is that God and Aphrodite and Thor and all the others actually exist.

I think you should give theists more credit than that.

[Mister_T]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

Nah. It just suggests that some people's faith in some instances can be explained by illusions created by their own minds.

Can you elaborate? What makes you think that you're not under the same spell that they are?

[eudaimonia]

Originally Posted by Mister_T

My question to the religious and non-religious is: Does this prove that faith in things such as God and the supernatural are just illusions created by our own minds?

Prove? No.

But it does cast significant doubt on any case for the supernatural that depends on personal experiences for support.


eudaimonia,

Mark

[Mister_T]

Originally Posted by eudaimonia

Prove? No.

But it does cast significant doubt on any case for the supernatural that depends on personal experiences for support.


eudaimonia,

Mark

So what do you make of shows like T.A.P.S.?

[Mister_T]

Originally Posted by Pariah

No, because it still does not provide hard evidence beyond subjective experience.

Care to give us some examples?

[Mister_T]

Originally Posted by Mister_T

If a person's faith is not determined by their feelings, then what is it based on?

How do you label your conviction that leads you to believe in God?

Can a theist answer this question for me?

[Pariah]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

I think it just shows how easy it is to manipulate people when religion is involved which is what most churches do.

With alien abductions and Elvis people readily dismiss them. With religion, however, fewer people are willing to take a stand (moderates and agnostics included) -

in accordance to your question, do you think it is that easy to manipulate people when any (perhaps similarly ambiguous) ideology is concerned or simply religion?

[Pariah]

Originally Posted by Mister_T

Care to give us some examples?

Of what? - hard evidence or subjective examples? I'll give both!

Hard evidence - None yet that I can be sure of! Or else we probably wouldn't be debating this would we?

You could talk about Near Death Experiences, Past Life Regression, Out of Body Experiences, Lucid Dreaming, etc. as proof but these, if true, could easily exist without a creator God.

Subjective experience - Mystical experience. Controlled experience (this Derren Brown experience), finding objects you've lost and attributing it to the supernatural, praying (whilst ignoring every time nothing happened while accentuating the times the wish was fulfilled).

I wasn't sure what you asked for but this is what I understood from your question.

[ChristineES]

When it comes to God, I need no hard evidence. That video is for entertainment, not for explaining how religion is spread.
I think if one wants to survive this world, he/she needs a sense of humor. I believe humor was one of God's greatest gifts.

[Mr Spinkles]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

Nah. It just suggests that some people's faith in some instances can be explained by illusions created by their own minds.

But any reasonable person, theist or not, allready knew that.

Any reasonable person knows that virtually all religious beliefs throughout history can be explained by wishful thinking, self-deception, the power of suggestion, and so on.....all religious beliefs, that is, except for yours.

I can't see any other possible way of explaining the incredible diversity of religious and superstitious belief throughout history.