Why Saved By Jesus (Messiah, gospel, incarnation, Jehovah, creation)

[longshanks]

Well its not always that simple in the universe.
Actually it came to me on saturday that the job of saving is mine.
Im going to have to save jesus in the end.
Funny how life works out aint it.

[longshanks]

And all we have to do is build a farm in the sky.
Its so simple.
And im not joking either.
Build a farm in the sky and its all going to be sorted.
Me a prophet, who would have thought.

[Ringer]

Originally Posted by Darkness

The Christian Fundamentalist God is Unmerciful (Eternal Hell), Unjust (Punishing Homosexuals), hateful (Hell, again), quick to anger, egotistical, psychopathic (1 Samuel 15:3) and closed minded.

Just reading your so-called descriptions of God makes me realize some of your ignorance and I'd have to question if you've really studied the bible. As I've already shown you the biblical perspective of Hell and yet you still believe it makes God unmerciful and hateful, I'll skip that and address the other ones.

Unjust - How does God single out homosexuals and not sinners in general? You might give me the Leviticus scripture but is there anything in the NT that condemns homosexuals over other sinners?

Quick to Anger - Big red flag for me as God has told sinners many times to repent of their sins or they will face the consequences. In fact, I think God has more patience than we deserve and that theme is displayed throughout the bible. Maybe you don't like the fact that when we are punished it's with an overwhelming consequence but IMO, that's what it takes to get people to wake up.

Egotistical - So let me get this straight, God created the universe and everything in it and yet he's not allowed to be self-centered?

Psycopathic - I also addressed your 1 Samuel 15:3 and how you didn't like the idea of innocents getting killed. Obviously, it wasn't to your liking. Anything else besides that scenario that points to God being psychopathic?

Close-minded - The only reason I see this as a bad thing is if somehow we knew better than God. If God is all knowing and all powerful, what makes you think he needs to get advice from me or you? Does anybody on earth know better than He does? I wouldn't say God is close-minded. I would say he has no reason to be open-minded.

[*Paul*]

Sorry to stay off subject but,

Booko,
The first pillar of Islam is - there is no ilah but Allah (there is no God (il-lah) but god (allah). If “Allah” were the Arabic word for god it seems that it would have been written: “There is no Allah but Allah". That seems reasonable to me - al (the) ilah (deity).

I see that some translations of the koran do not use the name allah, just not the ones I looked at. Fair enough.

[Yəhošafat]

Originally Posted by Booko

That's your opinion and you are welcome to it.

And it is the opinion of many others that you need to understand that "allah" is just the Arabic word for God, and they certainly are the same thing.

btw, God made a promise to Abraham. If you think that doesn't extend to any of the children of Hagar, I'd ask you to prove that from Biblical texts.

Just becuase the words mean the same doesn't mean the beings they refer to are also the same.

[Darkness]

Originally Posted by jringer04

Unjust - How does God single out homosexuals and not sinners in general? You might give me the Leviticus scripture but is there anything in the NT that condemns homosexuals over other sinners?

Does it matter if God singles out homosexuals? Labeling homosexuality a sin is absurd. There is not one logical argument against it. All I have heard is "God doesn't like it."

Originally Posted by jringer04

Quick to Anger - Big red flag for me as God has told sinners many times to repent of their sins or they will face the consequences. In fact, I think God has more patience than we deserve and that theme is displayed throughout the bible. Maybe you don't like the fact that when we are punished it's with an overwhelming consequence but IMO, that's what it takes to get people to wake up.

Leviticus 24:16
anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.

I would call that quick to anger.

Originally Posted by jringer04

Egotistical - So let me get this straight, God created the universe and everything in it and yet he's not allowed to be self-centered?

Not to the point where he wants everyone to be slaves to His will. If a person creates a new human from scratch, does it give him the right to control that creation's fate. Should the creation be the man's slave?

Originally Posted by jringer04

Psycopathic - I also addressed your 1 Samuel 15:3 and how you didn't like the idea of innocents getting killed. Obviously, it wasn't to your liking. Anything else besides that scenario that points to God being psychopathic?

All you told me is that God works in mysterious ways. How does that answer my question?

More Psychopathy:

"Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the LORD thy God any bullock, or sheep, wherein is blemish, or any evilfavouredness: for that is an abomination unto the LORD thy God... Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die."

Originally Posted by jringer04

Close-minded - The only reason I see this as a bad thing is if somehow we knew better than God. If God is all knowing and all powerful, what makes you think he needs to get advice from me or you? Does anybody on earth know better than He does? I wouldn't say God is close-minded. I would say he has no reason to be open-minded.

But what if the Universe is subjective and there isn't one Universal truth? Humanity's morals could be different from God's and neither is absolutely right or wrong. However, that means we are the natural enemies of God.

We may not have the knowledge of God, but there is no guarentee an all-knowing God is good. He could easily be evil. We have to discern for ourselves which it is.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by *Paul*

Sorry to stay off subject but,

Booko,
The first pillar of Islam is - there is no ilah but Allah (there is no God (il-lah) but god (allah). If “Allah” were the Arabic word for god it seems that it would have been written: “There is no Allah but Allah". That seems reasonable to me - al (the) ilah (deity).

Honestly, *Paul* for an explanation of what is reasonable about a language neither of us actually speak, it would probably be better to pop over to DIR Islam and ask someone who knows the language.

I know that Persian male names frequently end in "llah" which means "God." I have a friend in my old home town called "Izzat'u'llah" which means "Power of God." One presumes Arabic naming conventions do something similar.

Oh well, like you said...we're straying off topic.

I see that some translations of the koran do not use the name allah, just not the ones I looked at. Fair enough.

I recall reading in some scholarly text or other (gosh, which I could remember which) that there's some tradition that inclines Muslims to not translate "Allah." Don't know why that might be, but it would account for the many translations that you've observed that don't translate it.

There are things in Bible translations that don't seem to get translated either. Like...why not translate "Emmanuel" into "God with us" and have done with it? I guess I always assumed they had some reason to leave it be that I would have no reason to be privy to.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Yəhošafat

Just becuase the words mean the same doesn't mean the beings they refer to are also the same.

I'll keep that in mind the next time someone tells me I have to be "saved" by Jesus.

Just because the word in Koine means the same as "saved" doesn't mean the concept is the same as being "saved."

[FerventGodSeeker]

Originally Posted by Booko

btw, God made a promise to Abraham. If you think that doesn't extend to any of the children of Hagar, I'd ask you to prove that from Biblical texts.

I wouldn't say "any," but it doesn't extend to them automatically simply because of bloodline. Paul specifically mentions the promises to Abraham in his epistles and explains that the blessings are spiritual, to the members of the Church.

[Blindinglight]

ou need to understand that allah is not Jehovah,

Then why do they both claim Abraham, thus earning them the term Abrahamic, which as we all know from Sunday school as little kids, Abraham fol