Islam Answers Atheists (contradiction, Revelation, prophet, bible, point of view)

[Paw]

Have a look at this site:

http://www.islamic.org.uk/gde.html

Do you think it's a lie? I'm putting it here because if you think it's a lie, we debate, it's about religion, etc.... So, technically, I can't be punished for posting a link, can I?

[Green Gaia]

No, it's fine to post that link. Hearing a reason for theism from a non-Christian point of view will be a welcome change. Perhaps insteading attacking Atheism you should state your reasons for theism from the Muslim standpoint.

[linwood]

Originally Posted by RearingArabian

Have a look at this site:

http://www.islamic.org.uk/gde.html

Do you think it's a lie? I'm putting it here because if you think it's a lie, we debate, it's about religion, etc.... So, technically, I can't be punished for posting a link, can I?

Not a lie per say, just seriously misguided.

Lets take it point by point with the first point being...

The authenticity of the Qur'an is well established. It claims to be the essential record of the revelation from God to mankind through the last prophet and messenger Muhammad (Peace be upon him). You must judge for yourself if you agree with this claim, but it is certainly a trustworthy record.

I fail to see how the Koran is much more trustworthy than the Bible.
I concede the fact that it had one author makes it possible that it is more consistent but thats not really hard to do anyway.

Who has established the authenticity of the Koran?
What proof do you have that it was directly dictated by Muhammed?
How do you know Muhammed was dictating truly revealed info?
How was this info revealed to Muhammed by God?
How do you know Zaid was an honest scribe?
How do you know those who witnessed the validity of the texts were truthful?
Do you know who these witnesses were?
Do you know if they even existed?
Where is the original compilation of the Koran?

Are there not verses in the Koran which have been changed or done away with entirely?
Who decided this was correct and what standard did they use to do so?

Please know I have not read the Koran, it is the one book missing from my library that I haven`t gotten around to devoting the time to.

If we are going to discuss this you will be teaching me along the way.
Just remember I`m not a student who takes his teachers words at face value without question.

[_salam_]

Well I must say that I agree that it is good to question everything, if we don't we won't learn anything. However we have many many reasons for which we hold the Qur'an to be the authentic word of God. The stringant authentication process that the Qur'an and Hadith (or sayings of the Prophet) go through isn't rivaled by any other book, especially the Bible. Because of this process we know the Qur'an to be authentic and no, not a single verse has been added, subtracted, or changed since it was revealed from God.

The following is an article that goes through some of the authentication process that the Qur'an went through. http://www.iiie.net/Articles/AuthenticQuran.html

[Paw]

http://www.islamicinvitationcentre.c...ifferences.htm
CHRISITANITY AND ISLAM

by Gary Miller (convert)

It's too big to put here, but it states many differences. Feel free to browse the site too: there is a link somewhere that's a challenge. Try it.

[Master Vigil]

Salam, that site did not say how it is proven to be the exact word of god. It only showed how it was preserved. Well, the lord of the rings may have been perfectly preserved through time, but that does not make it the word of god. Or true in any way.

These questions put forth were not answered...

How do you know Muhammed was dictating truly revealed info?
How was this info revealed to Muhammed by God?

[linwood]

Originally Posted by RearingArabian

http://www.islamicinvitationcentre.c...ifferences.htm
CHRISITANITY AND ISLAM

by Gary Miller (convert)

It's too big to put here, but it states many differences. Feel free to browse the site too: there is a link somewhere that's a challenge. Try it.

That is an interesting site but I can`t consider what it says as unbiased due to the fact that it seems to exist more to falsify the bible than to authenticate the Koran.

It is more than deceptive in it`s efforts as well...

Mathew 27:5 says that Judas Iscariot when he died he hung himself. Acts 1 says that no he jumped off a cliff head first.

Acts 1 does not state that Judas jumped off a cliff head first.

Acts 1:18
" Now this man [Judas] purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."

I myself am well aware of the contradiction of the death of Judas Iscariot and have not found a Christian who could harmonize it but I don`t change the verses to make the contradiction to appear even worse.

not a single verse has been added, subtracted, or changed since it was revealed from God.

Perhaps not but the Koran seems to suffer from the same problems as the Bible in at least one respect.
Often it`s older laws are disregarded in favor of newer laws..

[4:15] Those who commit adultery among your women, you must have four witnesses against them, from among you. If they do bear witness, then you shall keep such women in their homes until they die, or until GOD creates an exit for them

[24:2] The adulteress and the adulterer you shall whip each of them a hundred lashes. Do not be swayed by pity from carrying out GOD's law, if you truly believe in GOD and the Last Day. And let a group of believers witness their penalty.

Considering the quotes above I`m curious as to why some societies ruled by sharia law condemn an adulteress to stoning.
Is this yet another verse somewhere or just a misinterpretation of the Koran?

Again, please remember I am not versed in the Koran and what I`m posting may seem foolish to someone who is..have patience.

Salem..I`m very interested in the site you`ve provided and will give it a bit of a read later tonight and let you know what I get from it.

Thank you

[_salam_]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

Salam, that site did not say how it is proven to be the exact word of god. It only showed how it was preserved. Well, the lord of the rings may have been perfectly preserved through time, but that does not make it the word of god. Or true in any way.

These questions put forth were not answered...

How do you know Muhammed was dictating truly revealed info?
How was this info revealed to Muhammed by God?

Well nobody can prove without a doubt that it is from God, this is where faith comes in. However there are certain things within the Qur'an that we can't explain other than it had to be from a Higher Power, or God. Some of these things would be certain scientific facts that are stated in the Qur'an that have just recentely been proven by modern science, now how could a person from the 7th century know such facts. These facts can be found in the article under the section titled "The Qur'an's Factual Contents and Scientific Information". If you read the entire article it answers all of the questions previously posted. I understand that not all of these answers are proved without a doubt, however this is the answer that we are given.

[linwood]

These facts can be found in the article under the section titled "The Qur'an's Factual Contents and Scientific Information".

Indeed they can and from my brief reading of the few sources you and Rearing Arabian have provided I have to say the Koran does indeed seem to have a much more solid foundation of reliability than the Bible does.
Bear in mind...I haven`t yet attempted to falsify them nor am I in as advantagious a position to do so as I am with the Bible due to my own lack of knowledge and experience with Islam.
At any rate you`ve given me food for thought to further explore Islam and in this day and age I think it`s probably a good thing for me to be doing.
Do either of you know of a dependable searchable Koran online?

[_salam_]

Well before I post any links let me tell you that the Qur'an isn't considered authentic unless your reading it in Arabic, so any translation you read is infact not considered the True Qur'an but rather a translation of the meaning of the Qur'an. Of course we know that no translation of anything can be 100% accurate compared to the original so please keep this in mind as your reading anything out of the Qur'an.
Anyway here is a link that should give you what your looking for, including the English translation of the Qur'an, a word search of the Qur'an, and more. http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/quran/

If your more interested in the scientific facts within the Qur'an you can go to this link here.
http://www.harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_01.php
On this page there is a more indepth look at the scientific facts and other miracles within the Qur'an. You can either download the entire book for free, or just view it section by section towards the bottom of the page.
Hope this helps and best of luck to you.