If God Loves Us All... (Jesus, moral, salvation, reincarnation)

[cardero]

Paraprakrti writes:It is good that we always understand ourselves to be subordinate to God.

What does this understanding of subordination accomplish for both the entity and GOD?

Paraprakrti writes: If we develop a sense of ego to think that we are truly equal to God due to His love then we are fools.

Though I do leave my ego at the door when I speak with GOD I am allowed to pick it up after we are done or at least what is left of it. I do not believe that it is egotistical to feel equal to GOD.

Paraprakrti writes: We are always dependent on God,

What do you feel we are dependant on GOD for?

[Simon the Cat]

I don't think that if there is a God, that that entity really is around for a specifically personal relationship - kinda like the Pope or the President or something. These people don't care about the all purpose individual - if they run into you, they care about your for that moment - but to think that they actually spend all of their time watching, judging and interacting with one is a little unrealistic in my opinion.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by Ronald

The righteous of all nations will share in the world to come. Rabbinic writing.

Ronald props to you man you get some frubals!

He's right G-d, though He punishes us for our mistakes, He is always quick to forgive. None of us are sinless but as long as we strive to be better people and work toward understand the Divine we can gain a place in the World to Come.
Jacobs ladder.

[Linus]

Jewscout, what exactly is the outlook on the afterlife according to Judaism? I know that the Old Testament is not clear on this subject, but there are verses that point toward it. Just wondering.

[Paw]

Originally Posted by skills101

Then why send the "bad" people to Hell? Doesn't He "forgive" all for their sins? What's your opinion?

I actually posted this question on another thread, but realized it wasn't the place.

Even though I'm not Christian, I think it would be a good idea to show my beliefs. If you believed that Jesus (pbuh) died on the cross for our sins, that's considered a lie, because it says that he wasn't crucified in the Qur'an. Also, if we ask Him for forgiveness, He may grant it, but He can choose not to. And it's funny, because being a Christian means, okay, I know Jesus (pbuh) died for me, I could kill everyone on the face of this Earth, but as long as I say, you are my savior, etc......I'll go to Heaven.
Why don't we make a new Monopoly game? Get out of Hell free card.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by Linus

Jewscout, what exactly is the outlook on the afterlife according to Judaism? I know that the Old Testament is not clear on this subject, but there are verses that point toward it. Just wondering.

There isn't much in Judaism about the afterlife. Jews try not to focus so much on the afterlife and concern themselves with being good people now since, we really don't know what the "World to Come" is all about.
And of course all righteous people, not just jews, will get a place in this World to Come.

[Linus]

I see. Thanks.

[Paraprakrti]

Originally Posted by carrdero

What does this understanding of subordination accomplish for both the entity and GOD?

What it accomplishes for the living entity is the dispelling of false ego. God is never under illusion so there is no question of God obtaining benefit from this. God is eternally understanding and thus eternally benefited.

Originally Posted by carrdero

Though I do leave my ego at the door when I speak with GOD I am allowed to pick it up after we are done or at least what is left of it. I do not believe that it is egotistical to feel equal to GOD.

A sense of equality with God can only be given by God. And in that sense we can understand how we are subordinate. We cannot falsely think ourselves equal to God. That is my point. Even when one is given that sense of fraternal equality with God, they always know that the only reason they have been exalted to that position is by God’s grace. If your plea is that we are factually equal to God then I must ask, why do we fall into ignorance? Why do we suffer from this ignorance? God never falls into ignorance. So if we are equal how come we are not our own God?

Originally Posted by carrdero

What do you feel we are dependant on GOD for?

The most specific answer to this question would be… everything.

The real question is how are we not dependant? If we are not dependent on God then how is it that we are dependant on minor things in this material world like food and water? If we are our own independent God-type beings then how come we have fallen to be dependant on food?? Are you seriously going to tell me that despite the fact that we are dependant on so many material things for the sustenance of our material well being, that we are not dependant on God? First of all, who has ordained that we be fed? I mean, ultimately. Who gives us the facility to do whatever it is that we do? If we are dependant at all, in any way, on any thing, then we are dependant on the Being who owns and controls those things, God. Also, if we are fallen in any capacity then in order to return to our constitutional position we must depend on something. If you say that we are not fallen, then why are we not full of knowledge? Why are we forced to take birth and to die? Why are we having this conversation?

[Iacobus]

God is prefectly just and prefectly mercyful. He loves us all that is why he gave us the chance to recivie grace from Him, but we also have free will and are able to not choose to take that grace.

[cardero]

Paraprakrti writes: We cannot falsely think ourselves equal to God. That is my point. Even when one is given that sense of fraternal equality with God, they always know that the only reason they have been exalted to that position is by God’s grace.

What I may have been insisting here is not the equality of GOD’s personality/individualism/PURPOSE/position but the same opportunities for UNDERSTANDING (wisdom), the same opportunities in developing GOD-like qualities (LOVE, consideration, TRUTH, RESPECT) may exist (if desired) and can BE equaled (though not as easily) even in the physical. If we are to believe the account of Jesus’ life as a fact, I think Jesus was trying to teach humans this exact equality. I apologize for any misunderstanding.

Paraprakrti writes: If we are not dependent on God then how is it that we are dependant on minor things in this material world like food and water?

I think it is our NATURAL human physicality that is dependant on food and water. I have heard some people proclaim that this may indeed BE an imperfection in GOD’s human creation. I do not think that the dependency on food and water is an imperfection of GOD though I would have to question his methods of disposal.

Paraprakrti writes: Who gives us the facility to do whatever it is that we do? If we are dependant at all, in any way, on any thing, then we are dependant on the Being who owns and controls those things, God.

I have never received a phone, water, food, electric, air, heating bill from GOD. I have received utility bills from other gods though.

Paraprakrti writes: If you say that we are not fallen, then why are we not full of knowledge? Why are we forced to take birth and to die?

I do not believe that we are forced to accept (take) on any experience that we do not desire. You may CORRECT me if I am mistaken but somehow I get the feeling that you do not feel you are a free willing participant towards your physical experience.

I cannot speak for everyONE on this matter but I believe one of the reasons we choose a physical incarnation is for the challenge to acquire knowledge which in itself is probably a very unique experience in this physical realm. Also the experiences of birth and death (though I assume are mandatory experiences if you choose a physical existence) are also non-evident as a resident of the spiritual realm. War, vacationing to different locations, going to a laborious job, the feeling of getting up in the morning, starving, suffering, creating art, writing a book, reading a book, tasting different foods, encouraging and evolving physical relationships, the challenge of learning an instrument, developing talent, renewing our UNDERSTANDING of LOVE, raising a family, jumping out of a plane, recognizing GOD in an another state of BEing, going to a musical concert are all experiences that may just BE exclusive to this physical existence.

Maybe the whole ritual/tradition/practice/decision of living a physical existence is not to get away from GOD but to exist independently from him/her.

I do not think that the word “fallen” is the CORRECT verb I would choose to describe the entrance into this existence. I think of it more like a tub/basin filled with hot water and we are just easing into it slowly until our bodies become adjusted to the temperature. This may BE a more appropriate way to visualize it.