Scientology - religion or business? You decide! (America, mission, churches)

[rojse]

But you say that they became suicidal because they visited psychaiatrists. I could think of three other reasons why there is a correlation that does not malign psychaiatrists:

1. Suicidal people visit psychaitrists
2. It is a coincidence
3. There is an indirect link between the two phenomena

An example of three would be finding a link between the amount of ice creams sold, and how many people drown at the beach. We all know that ice creams do not cause drowning, and people do not eat ice creams because others drown. There is a relation because the incidence of both increases as the weather heats up.

[exit_and_how]

rojse certainly makes the point of not jumping to conclusions.

However, if someone close to me died while involved with psychiatry, i would
definitely want to look further into it, simply because CoS
has made me paranoid enough about psychiatry and i think others feel the same way.

But CoS also doesn't have the cleanest reputation either, and so i would hold
out some hope for other watchdog groups. Doing a search on
"psychiatry ethics" yields many results. Apparently, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) developed a code of ethics in the 70's, but psychiatry
should have been following medical ethics in general which has been around
since who knows when.

Now, looking at the text from a website (http://www.psych.org/psych_pract/ethics/ppaethics.cfm), you can find The Principles of Medical Ethics
With Annotations Especially Applicable to Psychiatry

and you find a whole section on
Procedures for Handling Complaints of Unethical Conduct

Perhaps we should be educating eachother on the extent of misconduct instead of assuming it is either non-existent or rampant. Then educate people on how to proceed if misconduct is detected (intentional or not).

[adthelad]

Originally Posted by rojse

But you say that they became suicidal because they visited psychaiatrists.

I think you misread what I said a little.

[rojse]

If nothing happened except that psychiatry was banned (and the distinction about what to attack is that drugs, or other harmful procedures like electroshock therapy, lobotomies etc are used) mental health would increase all over the world.

Last year I there were a few celebrities who killed themselves because they were depressed. On closer inspection these celebrities had come into contact with psychiatry before they committed suicide.

I must have misinterpreted this, along with everyone else on this thread.

In the first paragraph, you state that mental health would increase should psychaiatry be banned. In the second paragraph, you draw a link between several celebrities committing suicide and psychaiatry.

How else am I meant to interpret the statement?

What I pointed out is that there are three other possible reasons for this correlation that you had not considered in your argument against psychaiatry.

[adthelad]

I generally steer clear of assumptions about what everyone else thinks.

I stated a fact about some celebrities committing suicide and coming into contact with psychiatry. One of them had been depressed for some time but committed suicide just one week after coming into contact with psychiatry and was in a psychiatric hospital at the time. However I never stated that he committed suicide because he came into contact with psychiatry. Of course there are other potential explanations and everyone is free to gather as many facts as possible and make up their own minds.

[rojse]

You have tried to make the link several times.

Very true. On the other hand you certainly shouldn't dismiss the idea that causation might be present because there is a correlation.

I am saying that there might be a link, but there might not. I have given three other possible reasons for this relation that you have not considered in your initial statement connecting the two phenomena. I don't know how they are linked, and you do not either until there are more studies into this.

[adthelad]

I agree that it is important to gather as much data as possible to make an as informed judgement as possible.

[exit_and_how]

what? gathering all the necessary information? you mean there still might be WMD in Iraq?

Even if you have the information, it's not enough. Look at teenagers and drugs. They are educated so much starting from a young age: they know the facts. And yet, look what happens - many start stoking up fatties with their homies anyway.