Animals... (ritual, moral, Earth, Kingdom, creation)

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes that animals have souls and will be resurrected. As an animal lover (see my title), that doctrine is a great source of comfort to me.

Where is that? I did a cursory search for it, didn't find it, was overpowered by boredom and couldn't keep my attention, so I went on to other things.

[lombas]

Since I do not believe in heaven, I don't think there is a separate one for your favorite pet to go to.

However, God being the creator of all things and animals being living creatures, it may be that there is a light within them. Since they have no reason, they will not understand, nor can they reason (about God). That way, I think they have no rights and are a mere "property" of human beings.

[Jaymes]

I don't think animals are here for me to eat, since I can live without eating them.

And I agree with what Gentoo said: Whatever happens to them, happens to us. The only difference between us and them is that our brain's wired a bit differently.

[Jaymes]

Originally Posted by lombas

However, God being the creator of all things and animals being living creatures, it may be that there is a light within them. Since they have no reason, they will not understand, nor can they reason (about God). That way, I think they have no rights and are a mere "property" of human beings.

Actually, that's not true. In studies ravens have been shown to exhibit logic on par with or above that of primates.

[lombas]

Originally Posted by Jaymes

Actually, that's not true. In studies ravens have been shown to exhibit logic on par with or above that of primates.

I have heard of such studies, and they may well be true. But can a raven enter a rational debate? Can it tell you its age when you ask for it (given you speak ravenish)?

Moreover, can it fulfill the premises of a rational debate (argumentation ethics, as they are called)?

[Jaymes]

Originally Posted by lombas

I have heard of such studies, and they may well be true. But can a raven enter a rational debate? Can it tell you its age when you ask for it (given you speak ravenish)?

Moreover, can it fulfill the premises of a rational debate (argumentation ethics, as they are called)?

Four year olds can't enter debate, either, but you have no issues exempting them from this criteria. Why?

[lombas]

Originally Posted by Jaymes

Four year olds can't enter debate, either, but you have no issues exempting them from this criteria. Why?

Ah, that is different. Four year olds haven't reached the level they are capable to enter a rational debate. But they will, if all goes well, in about # (e.g. sixteen) years.

It's about a person. A rational human being entering the discussion.

[Jaymes]

Originally Posted by lombas

Ah, that is different. Four year olds haven't reached the level they are capable to enter a rational debate. But they will, if all goes well, in about # (e.g. sixteen) years.

It's about a person. A rational human being entering the discussion.

So why don't have you issues exempting the mentally ill or retarded, those that can't debate, from this idea that the ability to debate gives someone the right to not be property?