Has faith evolved? (beliefs, evolution, doctrine, Christ, religion)

[Victor]

Has your faith evolved?

Take Sam Harris view on the matter:
The moderation we see among non-fundamentalists is not some sign that faith itself has evolved; it is, rather, the product of the many hammer blows of modernity that have exposed certain tenets of faith to doubt. (The End of Faith, pg. 19)

I happen to agree with him. Let me know your thoughts.

[Gentoo]

Since evolving is simply changing, can't that quote be seen as a type of evolution?

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Since evolving is simply changing, can't that quote be seen as a type of evolution?

What he is saying is that the tenets of religion actually don't evolve into something else. They essentially stay the same. What does evolve is people's perception and response to progressiveness, modernity, new social issues, science, etc.

They are basically doing what they can (which may involve denying the very tenets of their faith) to remain in their particular religion and living the modern world.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Victor

What he is saying is that the tenets of religion actually don't evolve into something else. They essentially stay the same. What does evolve is people's perception and response to progressiveness, modernity, new social issues, science, etc.

They are basically doing what they can (which may involve denying the very tenets of their faith) to remain in their particular religion and living the modern world.

It does happen that people will deny clear tenets in their faith in order to live in the modern world.

There are some people who steadfastly keep the tenets of their faith despite all that, though.

What confuses the issue is that, there are also beliefs and practices that are tossed overboard that, frankly, should be. I'm thinking of things that were not really part of the original faith in the first place (one obvious case I mentioned in a post yesterday concerned racism -- which was NOT something Christ taught).

So it muddies the waters, I think, in that some things are tossed overboard because they should be, and others are tossed overboard just to "fit in" or because humans can be pretty willful beings, or just because we think some tenets are no longer needed, but probably we'll find out the hard way they still apply as much as they ever did.

So, when we look at religious tenets that have been left by the wayside...why were they left behind?

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Victor

They are basically doing what they can (which may involve denying the very tenets of their faith) to remain in their particular religion and living the modern world.

I understand that the faith itself doesn't change, but people's interpretation of it will. That sounds like evolution to me. What the environment allows to stay does so and what the environment is opposed to is abandoned or changed. Simply, the "fittest" beliefs can handle living in a more modern society and will continue to pass on while the weaker beliefs, such as animal sacrifice, for example, will die off.

[Runlikethewind]

I think that it is our understanding of faith that is evolving and this is, in part, a result of "the hammer blows of modernity". The development of doctrine is something that has been going on since the very beginning as questions arose and clarification needed to be made. The center holds but our understanding evolves, hopefully into a better and more full understanding.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Booko

It does happen that people will deny clear tenets in their faith in order to live in the modern world.

There are some people who steadfastly keep the tenets of their faith despite all that, though.

What confuses the issue is that, there are also beliefs and practices that are tossed overboard that, frankly, should be. I'm thinking of things that were not really part of the original faith in the first place (one obvious case I mentioned in a post yesterday concerned racism -- which was NOT something Christ taught).

So it muddies the waters, I think, in that some things are tossed overboard because they should be, and others are tossed overboard just to "fit in" or because humans can be pretty willful beings, or just because we think some tenets are no longer needed, but probably we'll find out the hard way they still apply as much as they ever did.

So, when we look at religious tenets that have been left by the wayside...why were they left behind?

A couple things pop to mind:
1. It was never really a tenet to begin with and it was simply filtered out over time.
2. It was a tenet but couldn't survive the test of time (what modernity has provided).
3. The system itself is designed to adapt.

Something else?

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

I understand that the faith itself doesn't change, but people's interpretation of it will. That sounds like evolution to me. What the environment allows to stay does so and what the environment is opposed to is abandoned or changed. Simply, the "fittest" beliefs can handle living in a more modern society and will continue to pass on while the weaker beliefs, such as animal sacrifice, for example, will die off.

Well, in the case of the Catholic Church for example. It's worked the other around. Time has only clarified things. While the essense has remained. This is perhaps true of other religions.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Runlikethewind

I think that it is our understanding of faith that is evolving and this is, in part, a result of "the hammer blows of modernity". The development of doctrine is something that has been going on since the very beginning as questions arose and clarification needed to be made. The center holds but our understanding evolves, hopefully into a better and more full understanding.

So far, history seems to show that it has...