Has faith evolved? (beliefs, evolution, doctrine, Christ, religion)

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Victor

A couple things pop to mind:
1. It was never really a tenet to begin with and it was simply filtered out over time.
2. It was a tenet but couldn't survive the test of time (what modernity has provided).
3. The system itself is designed to adapt.

Something else?

I would add:

1a. It was never a tenet, but there were good reasons to include it to solve some problem that arose centuries after the beginning of the religion, but needed to be dealt with.

Some of the things tossed in Vatican II would likely go here...like no meat on Fridays and that sort of thing...and who knows, priestly celibacy in time might end up in the same boat, though that's your Church's call and not mine.

2a. It was and still is a tenet, but was tossed overboard as a matter of throwing out the baby with the bathwater (other tenets that fell into category 1.)

Some of those "hot button" issues fall into areas like that. One of the more obvious areas would be matters of sexual mores and the changes in marriage and divorce rates and increase in STD transmissions, children living in poverty, etc. Looking at it from a purely scientific and non-religious pov, the connection is pretty hard to miss. Unfortunately, sexual mores have fallen out of fashion, and some of them we were probably better off keeping. (I'd just as soon we keep the repression part lost permanently.)


3. The system is designed to adapt.

As you know as a Baha'i it's part of my belief that the system of religion is in fact designed to adapt. That's why we get periodic Messengers, and sometimes they update things that are no longer needed. Sometimes they toughen up things that were there before.

The difference is, the *Messengers* get to make the changes, because they have infallible knowledge.

We don't have that sort knowledge, so our place is to follow the tenets that exist as best we may. If it's truly outdated, God will handle it in time.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings! :-)

>Has faith evolved?

Most assuredly!

Indeed, it's the very nature of religion to evolve over time, so that it keeps pace with and appropriately addresses humanity's needs and abilities as we evolve!

It's what we call 'Progressive Revelation," which we take to mean that religious evolution will never end!

Best, :-)

Bruce

[Ozzie]

Originally Posted by Booko

It does happen that people will deny clear tenets in their faith in order to live in the modern world.

There are some people who steadfastly keep the tenets of their faith despite all that, though.

What confuses the issue is that, there are also beliefs and practices that are tossed overboard that, frankly, should be. I'm thinking of things that were not really part of the original faith in the first place (one obvious case I mentioned in a post yesterday concerned racism -- which was NOT something Christ taught).

So it muddies the waters, I think, in that some things are tossed overboard because they should be, and others are tossed overboard just to "fit in" or because humans can be pretty willful beings, or just because we think some tenets are no longer needed, but probably we'll find out the hard way they still apply as much as they ever did.

So, when we look at religious tenets that have been left by the wayside...why were they left behind?

The "tossing over the side" analogy is succinct. It is a great analogy for the "hammer blows of modernity" alluded to in the OP. Both reduce belief to the modern version that is "now", observable and de jour. Evolution of belief could take a radical course otherwise and really evolve into something "new". But that would involve expulsing the baby with the bathwater.

[Ozzie]

Originally Posted by Victor

Has your faith evolved?

Take Sam Harris view on the matter:
The moderation we see among non-fundamentalists is not some sign that faith itself has evolved; it is, rather, the product of the many hammer blows of modernity that have exposed certain tenets of faith to doubt. (The End of Faith, pg. 19)

I happen to agree with him. Let me know your thoughts.

What does it mean for something that is amorphous like religion to evolve?

[Jayhawker Soule]

I find it unhelpful to equate 'religion' with 'faith'.

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by Jay

I find it unhelpful to equate 'religion' with 'faith'.

I must agree with you here. There are many who eschew religion who still rely on their faith. There are many who deny that they have faith who do. There are many who profess their religion with an undying fervor who have very little faith in it.

[Ozzie]

Originally Posted by Jay

I find it unhelpful to equate 'religion' with 'faith'.

Ok. What does it mean for something that is amorphous like faith to evolve?

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings, greetings! :-)

Originally Posted by Ozzie

Ok. What does it mean for something that is amorphous like faith to evolve?

first off, I wouldn't assume faith is "amorphus": mine sure isn't!

And in the Baha'i view, the evolution of religion is initiated by God Himself through sending a new Divine Messenger periodically both to:

• correct past human mistakes and distortions of the true religions He had already revealed (through His Messengers), and
• proclaim new, updated social teachings in line with an evolving humanity's changing needs and growing abilities.

To cite just two examples,

• Certain former dietary laws, those of both Judaism and Islam, prohibited eating pork. It's possible that this was because doing so tended to cause disease in those times and places. Now we have solutions to prevent this, and in Baha'i law dietary restrictions have been eliminated.
• Both Christianity and Islam (possibly Judaism, too, but I can't say for sure) explicitly permitted slavery (though Islam did place certain restrictions on it--arguably another example of religious evolution). The scriptures of the Baha'i Faith, in contrast, explicitly outlaw it!

As goes the saying, there is progress! :-)

Best,

Bruce