Women vs. Religion (ritual, testimony, preach, spiritual, worship)

[Bishka]

Originally Posted by Kcnorwood

From what I remember about being a christian & reading the bible christiany seems to downplay the importance of women..

From what you remember.....

Originally Posted by Kcnorwood

Menstruating women are unclean. LEVITICUS 15:19-32 so if I kiss my wife during her period it's a sin?? No it just means I'll be sleeping on the couch for the next week!

DEUTERONOMY 20:14 Take women, livestock as plunder. Comparing women to cattle???

EPHESIANS 5:22-24 Wives must submit to husbands in everything. Tell my wife that & you'll end up in the ER! ..

Funny enough, you blame Christianity, but two of the scriptures that you have given originated with the Hebrew scriptures (Judaism); one came from the New Testament. Please do not put what you see as the blame fully on Christianity if you are going to pull scriptures that other faith's have used as well.

The scripture that you posted from Ephesians can be interpreted in many different ways, but I see it as, "22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord." Basically, if the men are righteous and heed unto the counsels and commandments of the Lord, the women should have no problem in following suit and following as their husband have done (if that is their chosen path) -- in being righteous and following their example of their husband.

Originally Posted by Kcnorwood

I know of no other religion that has or has these rules for women..

I could name a couple, but we won't go into that in this discussion completley.

Originally Posted by Kcnorwood

Quote by Terry "Both men and women are created by God, both are equal in every way in the sight of God". Please show me where the bible or God says this.

1 Corithians 11:11
"11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord."

Is that simple enough?

[bible truth]

Originally Posted by beckysoup61

How do you feel about women and religion? Do you see some religions as more constricting on women? What religion do you see that give women the most freedom (from you POV)?

The Word of God according to the Holy Bible alone. These passages should not be interpreted separately and apart from the entire Holy Bible. - BT
1 Timothy 2

I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time. And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing.
I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

[Bishka]

Originally Posted by bible truth

But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

So, according to your faith, woman can only be saved if they have children???

[Kcnorwood]

I'm pretty sure that the word submit in this text is: To yield or surrender (oneself) to the will or authority of another. Maybe it's just me but that sound's wrong.

I'm not blambing christiany if you want to blame someone blame those who wrote the bible I had nothing to do with it.



11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord." This sounds like more that the man & women should always be toghether it says nothing about being equal.


Again please show me what other religions look down on women.

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by bible truth

The Word of God according to the Holy Bible alone. These passages should not be interpreted separately and apart from the entire Holy Bible. - BT
1 Timothy 2

I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time. And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing.
I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

As I've said so many times before, these types of passages should not be interpreted as moral directives, but as cultural propriety, in light of the culture of which the writer would have known his audience to be part. The mistake comes when we endeavor to apply them as moral directives for people of a different culture and time.

[Bishka]

Originally Posted by Kcnorwood

I'm pretty sure that the word submit in this text is: To yield or surrender (oneself) to the will or authority of another. Maybe it's just me but that sound's wrong.

There are several different interpretations of the scripture.

Originally Posted by Kcnorwood

I'm not blambing christiany if you want to blame someone blame those who wrote the bible I had nothing to do with it. .

Sure seems as if you were; and still are.

Originally Posted by Kcnorwood

11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord." This sounds like more that the man & women should always be toghether it says nothing about being equal..

Then read between the lines. It's plain as day, the man is nothing without the woman and the woman is nothing without the man; in essence, they are equal. Neither one is above another. It really buggers me, when I try to explain something and people are like 'give me another explanation I don't like yours.'

Originally Posted by Kcnorwood

Again please show me what other religions look down on women.

It seems as if the more radical brances of Islam do, as do some cultic faiths. Christianity hardly looks down on women.

[Kcnorwood]

How can I blame christiany for something I didn't write? Yes I forgot about Islam they do the same.
Sorry but to submit to someone is to yeild to someone or something.

You said more or less there can be several different interpretations of the scripture right?

Then how do you know your talking 1 corths one the right way? There are so many places in the bible that come across as demeaning to women I don't see how you can refute them.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by beckysoup61

There are a couple of problems with this quote. One, it is not official doctrine, so it can basically be coutned as one MAN'S opinion.

Originally Posted by beckysoup61

Our current Prophet and President of the LDS Church has recently written a book called "One Bright Shining Hope -- Messages for the Women" and it clearly contradicts what you seem to be feeling. Let me give you a couple of inspired passages from that book

So this book is official doctrine now? If not, it's just one man's opinion. If so, then I hope this will be read in church as often as the D&C, the BoM and the Bible are from now on.

Originally Posted by beckysoup61

Two, it was written in 1857 and times int he LDS Church has changed.

God doesn't change and He seems pretty sexist in the OT.

Originally Posted by beckysoup61

If this doesn't show you how much the LDS Church values women, I'm not sure what will.

I have no doubt that the church values women. I just don't believe that they are valued the same as men. If there really was no issue with women feeling lower than men then why did this book have to be brought out in the first place? Maybe if you can show me a book about how men shouldn't feel like they are below women I could agree with you.

Originally Posted by beckysoup61