Religious Folk: Answer (Jesus Christ, testimony, Earth, gospel, mystic)

[Reverend Rick]

Originally Posted by beckysoup61

(you basically have to look Jesus Christ in the face and deny that He exists).

Becky, please consider what the whole book of Revelations is about. Seven seals, seven trumpet judgements, and seven bowl judgements, just to get the Jews to realize that they were wrong about him and admit he exists.

Even the hardest headed Jew will start reading what will happen next with 21 judgements predicted and coming true in exact order. Yes, he does want us to love one another and will spare us who do, from these terrible times, but only the hardest of heart will deny Jesus is our Lord and Savior after 21 chances to see the light.

[HopefulNikki]

Originally Posted by Sportman

I consider myself agnostic, only because I cannot disprove the existence of a God(s).

But my question to religious people, is how do you justify your beliefs when there are so many differing views, even within a single sect!

The only response the religious can effectively come up with is they have FAITH in God. This is made plausible by saying something along the lines of 'faith is like love ... I cannot prove it with science, but I know it exists, I can FEEL it ...'

I can accept that much. But what people have to understand, that this is the same feeling people of all religions have. They ALL feel and 'KNOW' on the inside that their God/Gods exist. Many religions, such as Christianity, Islam Judaism DO NOT allow for other Gods. So, straight away millions of people outside of these religions must be wrong on order for them to be right.

Then, looking at Christianity, Judaism and Islam. They all believe in the same God, yet feel he wants to be worshipped in different ways. If any of these is right, that means BILLIONS of others were wrong. Then don't get me started on the different views within a single religion, which simply change to adapt with contemporary society.

How can anyone justify themselves and their belief when faced with this? The chances of being correct, logically are astronomical. Look forward to responses.

My answer to this is, yes, there are differences of views within various theistic groups...however, what I think you ignore is the fact that there are differences of views in agnosticism and atheism as well...does such discrepancy invalidate those systems as well? If we're going to reject any and all systems of belief or "non-belief" based on the fact that others that fall under the same general umbrella as us don't agree with everything that we do, then are are forced to curl up in the fetal position and pretend like we aren't anything, atheist, agnostic, theist, or otherwise. However, I think such an outlook is immensely self-defeating and rather ludicrous, so you're going to have to come up with a better argument against theism than "All theists don't agree."

[ChristineES]

Even with all the differences, they are some truths that ALL Christians believe:
Jesus was born of a virgin, Jesus taught many people, Jesus healed many people, Jesus died as a sacrifice, and Jesus rose again on the Third day.
The other differences are superficial to me.
While it is true that Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the same God, each has it's own set of "rules"(for lack of a better term). For Jews, it is The Torah, for Christians, The New Testament, and for Muslims, it is the Qu'Ran.

[HB3]

Originally Posted by ChristineES

While it is true that Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the same God, each has it's own set of "rules"(for lack of a better term). For Jews, it is The Torah, for Christians, The New Testament, and for Muslims, it is the Qu'Ran.

The problem is that the Torah, New Testament and Qu'ran are more than just a set of rules. They are also attempts to define and describe the unknowable(Who God is and how he functions). And while rules may differ and still allow room for tolerance, it is
more difficult to attain the same level of tolerance among groups with contradicting descriptions and interpretations of God and his expectations. This is what I believe was the concern of the original post. Tolerance becomes even more difficult when each religion believes their book is a direct revelation from God - ie revealed religions.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Sportman

I consider myself agnostic, only because I cannot disprove the existence of a God(s).

Technically speaking, I'm an agnostic as well, though I choose to be religious anyway.

But my question to religious people, is how do you justify your beliefs when there are so many differing views, even within a single sect!

This is an expansive topic, but here's the Reader's Digest version:

1. The core of religions is essentially the same.
2. There are differences, however, because:
... a. the needs of the time and place where the religion arise differ
... b. people change things over time, sometimes because new situations arise that need to be dealt with, and other times because human egos get in the way, and then there are just plain honest mistakes, but it's okay because:
3. God never leaves us without guidance. There will always be yet another Messenger who comes to give us the next lesson for humanity, to fix a few of the things that went awry, and remove things that are no longer needed.

The only response the religious can effectively come up with is they have FAITH in God. This is made plausible by saying something along the lines of 'faith is like love ... I cannot prove it with science, but I know it exists, I can FEEL it ...'

Nowhere in my Reader's Digest version did I mention feelings or faith. I rarely make an appeal to "feelings" -- it's not in my nature.

I can accept that much. But what people have to understand, that this is the same feeling people of all religions have. They ALL feel and 'KNOW' on the inside that their God/Gods exist. Many religions, such as Christianity, Islam Judaism DO NOT allow for other Gods. So, straight away millions of people outside of these religions must be wrong on order for them to be right.

You are somewhat misinformed about these religions. There is some recognition of other religions as valid.

Judaism: Judaism is the correct religion -- for Jews. What the Gentiles do is up to them. There is such a thing as a righteous Gentile. (Please consult NoahideHiker for details about B'nai Noach.) Judaism has never been in the business of telling members of other religions that they are going to hell.

Islam:
Verily, whether it be of those who believe, or those who are Jews or Christians or Sabaeans, whosoever believe in God and the last day and act aright, they have their reward at their Lord's hand, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 2 - The Heifer)

Christianity:
This is agruably more exclusive, but even within Christianity there are strong strains that admit the possibility that non-Christians may find some favor with God. Even the Pope has said as much in statements regarding Muslims. (I wish I could find the statement for you...sorry, but it's possible one of the Roman Catholics can.)

Then, looking at Christianity, Judaism and Islam. They all believe in the same God, yet feel he wants to be worshipped in different ways.

What's so "different" about the way those religions worship? They are to love God, love their neighbor, be honest in their dealings, follow the ordinances of their religions, make a positive difference in the world, and they all have a version of daily prayers and for the most part, fasting of some sort. Seems like pretty much the same stuff to me.

Do you really think it makes a big deal whether they say 3 or 5 prayers per day? It's all prayers. Does it matter whether they use candles or not? What vestments someone wears? Who cares?

If any of these is right, that means BILLIONS of others were wrong. Then don't get me started on the different views within a single religion, which simply change to adapt with contemporary society.

You're missing the possibility that they're all right, though possibly only partly so (humans do tend to misunderstand things sometimes). Or possibly some things have gone out of date, while the universal truths remain.

How can anyone justify themselves and their belief when faced with this? The chances of being correct, logically are astronomical. Look forward to responses.

Search for "progressive revelation" and see what threads turn up. It might be interesting.

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by standing_alone

I think I've probably misunderstood your point here (or read into it too much), but can one choose love without choosing God? Or do those who reject belief in God (for themselves) give in to hate?

It's a package deal: if you choose love you have chosen God. It has nothing to do with acknowledging God. It has everything to do with acting like God.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by HB3

Tolerance becomes even more difficult when each religion believes their book is a direct revelation from God - ie revealed religions.

Uh...not if your book that you believe is a direct revelation from God tells you something like this [emphasis mine]:

There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God. The difference between the ordinances under which they abide should be attributed to the varying requirements and exigencies of the age in which they were revealed. All of them, except a few which are the outcome of human perversity, were ordained of God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Arise and, armed with the power of faith, shatter to pieces the gods of your vain imaginings, the sowers of dissension amongst you. Cleave unto that which draweth you together and uniteth you.

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 217)


With passages like this from texts that I believe are divinely revealed, even "tolerance" is not sufficient. "Acceptance" is more like it.

If I believe that my religion is just one chapter in a greater Book, it makes no sense for me to go around claiming other chapters in that Book are wrong or invalid, or that paying attention to what's in those chapters will send you to hell.

And if my chapter insists there will be other chapters to follow, it makes it more difficult to get too big-headed about the whole religion thing. We, too, are subject to updating when God sees fit.

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

Originally Posted by Sportman

[H]ow do you justify your beliefs when there are so many differing views, even within a single sect?

Very simple:

Through extensive prayer, reading, research, investigation, and observation one (and in this case I) come up with an informed decision as to which religious path is the best and most appropriate!

Having done this, I then follow it to the best of my ability.

(And indeed, this is exactly what my religion--the Baha'i Faith--teaches EVERYONE should do in order to determine religious truth and choose the best path!)

Works for us. :-)

Best,

Bruce