Catholic Church The First (Jesus Christ, Earth, Messiah, Kingdom, tradition)

[UnityNow101]

Oh, alright. Thanks James.

[Scuba Pete]

This has all the makings of a...

HOLY RUMBLE!

Enjoy as these sects play the church version of "Who's on first?" Watch closely as both fact and scriptures get fractured in a valiant effort to prove their CHRISTIAN DOMINATION via primacy! Will you be swayed? Will you come to believe? Probably not, as this has NO BEARING on what it means to be a Christian.

[athanasius]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

This has all the makings of a...

HOLY RUMBLE!

Enjoy as these sects play the church version of "Who's on first?" Watch closely as both fact and scriptures get fractured in a valiant effort to prove their CHRISTIAN DOMINATION via primacy! Will you be swayed? Will you come to believe? Probably not, as this has NO BEARING on what it means to be a Christian.

Actually finding the true church does have bearing on what it means to be christian. Why? because we want to have a true pure doctrine that the apostles taught and not a false doctrine. We want to know how the scriptures have always been interpreted by the Spirit filled ancient Church Fathers and her councils so we can know true doctrine and how to interpet the bible passages. So historical study(reading the fathers of the Church who were taught by the apostles, like Ignatius of antioch and studying the early church councils) is very important.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by athanasius

Actually finding the true church does have bearing on what it means to be christian. Why? because we want to have a true pure doctrine that the apostles taught and not a false doctrine. We want to know how the scriptures have always been interpreted by the Spirit filled ancient Church Fathers and her councils so we can know true doctrine and how to interpet the bible passages. So historical study(reading the fathers of the Church who were taught by the apostles, like Ignatius of antioch and studying the early church councils) is very important.

Apparently, it's only important if it agrees with you... Otherwise it's seen as traditions of men. I just don't get how any non-historical Church can even begin to have a claim. Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox; now them I can completely understand. But other then that, it's slim to none.

[athanasius]

Originally Posted by Victor

Apparently, it's only important if it agrees with you... Otherwise it's seen as traditions of men. I just don't get how any non-historical Church can even begin to have a claim. Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox; now them I can completely understand. But other then that, it's slim to none.

I agree whole heartedly.

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by athanasius

So historical study(reading the fathers of the Church who were taught by the apostles, like Ignatius of antioch and studying the early church councils) is very important.

It's like studying the barn after all the horses were let out. The promised apostasy had surely taken place and so all subsequent churches are suspect. Why not just use the tremendous amount of information provided in Acts about the first century church? I would suggest that the ULTIMATE authority still resides with Jesus, as pointed out by all of the Apostles. The further you digress from his teachings, the further you corrupt the truth.

But really, it's man's lot to confuse and complicate things. It gives him an out as he misses the most important part of Christianity: Love your neighbor.

In another thread, the concept of "gate keeping" was raised. God is in control of this, and we don't even need to try. It appears that the ONLY REASON to be first is completely prideful so that you can exert your AUTHORITY over everyone else. Paul alluded to this arrogance when he talked about "Super Apostles".

II Corinthians 11:3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. 5 But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those "super-apostles."NIV

Sorry, but I am not going to be deceived by this boasting about being the "first" church when you are never mentioned in scriptures and since you clearly depart from the simplicity of the Gospel and the ecclesia as typified in the book of Acts. I do not think that I am in the least inferior to you "super-Christians" who claim to hold some primacy and some voodoo understanding that only your church can impart. I fully believe that it's the Spirit who will lead me into understanding, just as God promised and not Catholicism which never is mentioned.

[athanasius]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

It's like studying the barn after all the horses were let out. The promised apostasy had surely taken place and so all subsequent churches are suspect. Why not just use the tremendous amount of information provided in Acts about the first century church? I would suggest that the ULTIMATE authority still resides with Jesus, as pointed out by all of the Apostles.

But really, it's man's lot to confuse and complicate things. It gives him an out as he misses the most important part of Christianity: Love your neighbor.

In another thread, the concept of "gate keeping" was raised. God is in control of this, and we don't even need to try. It appears that the ONLY REASON to be first is completely prideful so that you can exert your AUTHORITY over everyone else. Paul alluded to this arrogance when he talked about "Super Apostles".

II Corinthians 11:3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. 5 But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those "super-apostles."NIV

Sorry, but I am not going to be deceived by this boasting about being the "first" church when you are never mentioned in scriptures and since you clearly depart from the simplicity of the Gospel and the ecclesia as typified in the book of Acts. I do not think that I am in the least inferior to you "super-Christians" who claim to hold some primacy and some voodoo understanding that only your church can impart. I fully believe that it's the Spirit who will lead me into understanding, just as God promised and not Catholicism which never is mentioned.

Sigh......Well you will know the Catholic church is Christ true Church when you get heaven

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

It's like studying the barn after all the horses were let out. The promised apostasy had surely taken place and so all subsequent churches are suspect.

It's certainly a wonderful way of excusing oneself from diving into history. To each his own, but this claim is so weak that I don't even give it thought any more. Someday I hope you can read the letters of these apostasized men that you speak of.

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

Why not just use the tremendous amount of information provided in Acts about the first century church? I would suggest that the ULTIMATE authority still resides with Jesus, as pointed out by all of the Apostles. The further you digress from his teachings, the further you corrupt the truth.

Amen!

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

But really, it's man's lot to confuse and complicate things.

Just note that you yourself are a man....but let's move on...

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

It gives him an out as he misses the most important part of Christianity: Love your neighbor.

Got it! Loud and clear....

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

In another thread, the concept of "gate keeping" was raised. God is in control of this, and we don't even need to try. It appears that the ONLY REASON to be first is completely prideful so that you can exert your AUTHORITY over everyone else. Paul alluded to this arrogance when he talked about "Super Apostles".

You came to this conclusion based on what? I don't need to force my Church's authority on anyone. History speaks for itself. If you struggle with authority because you like the freedom of interpreting the Bible however strikes you fancy, then have it! That's between you and God. But please don't extend such trite slogans as "pride" to me or my Church.

Sorry, but I am not going to be deceived by this boasting about being the "first" church when you are never mentioned in scriptures and since you clearly depart from the simplicity of the Gospel and the ecclesia as typified in the book of Acts. I do not think that I am in the least inferior to you "super-Christians" who claim to hold some primacy and some voodoo understanding that only your church can impart. I fully believe that it's the Spirit who will lead me into understanding, just as God promised and not Catholicism which never is mentioned.

Our stance for our claims is so much more then being first. But continue on with your labeling crusade of "boasting" and "pride"....

I need not say a word and it stands strong on it's own...