Catholic Church The First (Jesus Christ, Earth, Messiah, Kingdom, tradition)

[athanasius]

Originally Posted by TruthInCatholocism

107 AD in Documents The Church is refered to as Catholic... You say the Nicene Creed.. And the 4 marks The Church is One, Holy, Catholic (yes, i know..universal), Apostolic.

Lets Break down the marks of the Church For you....

Is the Orthroox Church "One" ?

The Orthodox Church, Penguin Books, 255–8 ( Orthodox Writer) "there is no practical way for the Orthodox to call or agree upon an ecumenical council "


Is Orthordox Church "Catholic"

Jeus wanted the apostles to go and spread the Good News to "All Nations" Matt. 28:19–20 (Universal-Catholic) yet Orthordox confines itself mostly to Russia, Greece,.... Doesnt sound very universal..


Almost 68 Percent of Christians are Catholic...
Almost 21 Percent Are Othordox

No offense Catholic sounds more.... well... Catholic to me

The Church is Apostolic..... (Follows the works of the Apostles)


Orthodox do not recognize the pope as having the kind of teaching and governing authority....... O_O

You believe in Apostolic Succesion.. But the Pope has no authority >.<

Organizations need leaders if they are to hang together, and if Christ’s Church is a visible (Which it is ) Church, then it needs a single earthly leader

if Peter were the rock Christ speaks of in Matthew 16:18, this would make him the earthly leader of the Church in Jesus’ absence....... And the Leadership was handed down thru Apostolic succesion

Now yes i will say Your church is Apostolic in a sence.... But to ignore the popes Authority.... Uh uh

Amen!! Amen! Amen! excellent points! The Orthodox really fall flat on thier face when all the evidence is looked at historically and especially biblically(which they always seem to ignore when I want to exegete Matthew 16 13-19). Good points!

[athanasius]

Originally Posted by TruthInCatholocism

O_O Wow.. Why does Almost Every non Catholic Use That.....

A. Peter was called by Greek Petros and not Petra Because of the Replacment of Feminine syntax (Scholars agree)
In Aramaic Peter was Called Kepha when translated Kepha Becomes Petra, Petra is the Feminine Syntax , Peter was Male O_O
(see there dilema) therefor he was called in Greek Petros

B. Aramic Cephas(Kepha) is Litterarly Translated into "ROCK" not "stone" O_O (research aramaic O_O)

C. Finally (ish) Yes, what Jesus was trying to say

Peter you are a insugnificant person a tiny stone.. oh By the way here are the keys to heaven... and later he thought peter so insignificant he said Peter who you forgive are forgiven and who you hold bound are held bound in heaven O_O where do you people get your logic >.<

In aramaic
Jesus said: attah KEFA hu we'al KEFA den ebnyeh qehali (the language Jesus would have been speaking)

Litterarly translates
you are a ROCK and on this ROCK I will BUILD my Church (Assembly)

Massive number of Presbyterian, Protestant, Calvinist, Catholic, Atheist Scholars agree (now anyway) the trasnlation from Aramaic to Greek need a Masculine Syntax hence Petro instead of Petra

Which means your gonna have to Update your argument... (there not using the Kepha thing anymore- They realized its a bad argument) Now i think there trying to say.. Peter didnt goto Rome... Oh wait He is Writing From babylon which is a "Code name" For peagen Rome.. Strike 2

lets see what new you can come up with

So.....

Oh.. and about me reading the Doctines of the Church i know the CCC its not unbiblical at all.... Question a specific Document that is unbiblical.. Ill show you otherwise

frubals for you again! excellent points! Good job!

[nutshell]

Originally Posted by athanasius

Amen!! Amen! Amen! excellent points! The Orthodox really fall flat on thier face when all the evidence is looked at historically and especially biblically(which they always seem to ignore when I want to exegete Matthew 16 13-19). Good points!

...and when looked at through a Roman Catholic lens.

[roli]

Originally Posted by TruthInCatholocism

O_O Like i said study ><

Wikipedia

The apostle's given name appears to be Simon, and he is given the Aramaic nickname, kêfâ or kîfâ, meaning 'rock'. The final sigma (s) is added in Greek to make the name masculine rather than feminine. That the meaning of the name was more important than the name itself is evidenced by the universal acceptance of the Greek translation, Πέτρος (Petros). It is not known why Paul uses the Aramaic name rather than the Greek name for Simon Peter when he writes to the churches in Galatia and Corinth

Κηφᾶς (Kēphâs). = ROCK!!!!!
כיפא (kêfâ). = ROCK!!!

Thats 100 % Fact...

www.answers.com/topic/aramaic-of-jesus
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_of_Jesus
www.catholicapologetics.net/apolo_73.htm
www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/archives/greek-3/msg00748.html
sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/Cephas.htm

and 1000's more have fun learning.. Catch up to date.. then come back and play with the big boys :P (just kidding-ish)

I guess you see what you want to see and not see what is clearly seen.
If Jesus where to have the final say, would that be permitted by you
Please look at what Jesus says in this verse regarding Peter's new name ,does that say anything to you that Jesus renamed him
Jhn 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

[athanasius]

Originally Posted by roli

I guess you see what you want to see and not see what is clearly seen.
If Jesus where to have the final say, would that be permitted by you
Please look at what Jesus says in this verse regarding Peter's new name ,does that say anything to you that Jesus renamed him
Jhn 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

Kind of like Petros can mean large rock as many bible only protestant Koine Greek Scholars have noted.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by nutshell

...and when looked at through a Roman Catholic lens.

You know, those catholics are the only ones with lens... .

[nutshell]

Originally Posted by Victor

You know, those catholics are the only ones with lens... .

Everyone looks at stuff through their own lenses

[Victor]

Originally Posted by nutshell

Everyone looks at stuff through their own lenses

Exactly!

I go in depth about it here (post #8):
Why should i be Catholic?

If you are interested.