Which Of the World's Religions Is Most Practical? (ritual, America)

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Victor

I haven't the foggiest idea how many will or will not. Why does matter for my position to have merit? You lost me...

You said I was going by the exception and not the rule. Whether something is the exception or the rule depends on numbers.

There are about 6.5 billion people on this earth at this moment. Only 2.1 billion of them are Christian. So either over two-thirds of the people alive today are going to hell because they don't believe the right things. Or those non-Christians who "deserve" to be saved will be saved anyway, despite their "wrong" beliefs. If only a spattering of these people make it into heaven, then yes, they're the exception. But if even half of these people make it into heaven, then they're no longer the exception but the rule. If that's the case, then clearly "right belief" is no the most important factor for making it into heaven.

Originally Posted by Victor

I am making no such connection. What I said applies whether you are catholic or not. If you think sincerity is what is most important then that's fine, but I do not. I believe sincerity only takes you so far. I'm rather suprised you would think otherwise.

Victor, you're the one who inserted "sincerity" midway into this conversation. As I said in the other thread, I don't judge religions by their beliefs. I do judge religions by what you call their "fruits." The only thing I've been arguing is that belief is not the most important factor, based on the reasoning that I spelled out above.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by lilithu

There are about 6.5 billion people on this earth at this moment. Only 2.1 billion of them are Christian. So either over two-thirds of the people alive today are going to hell because they don't believe the right things. Or those non-Christians who "deserve" to be saved will be saved anyway, despite their "wrong" beliefs.

Or acceptance of Jesus Christ as one's Savior is required in order to receive all of the blessings God has promised, but the brief time on Earth may not the only opportunity people will have to get it right, and Heaven has varying degrees of glory (i.e. differing rewards for different levels of faithfulness), meaning that a good person need not accept Christ in order to attain at least some eternal reward.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by lilithu

You said I was going by the exception and not the rule. Whether something is the exception or the rule depends on numbers.

There are about 6.5 billion people on this earth at this moment. Only 2.1 billion of them are Christian. So either over two-thirds of the people alive today are going to hell because they don't believe the right things. Or those non-Christians who "deserve" to be saved will be saved anyway, despite their "wrong" beliefs. If only a spattering of these people make it into heaven, then yes, they're the exception. But if even half of these people make it into heaven, then they're no longer the exception but the rule. If that's the case, then clearly "right belief" is no the most important factor for making it into heaven.

You misunderstood me. By exception, I was talking about believing something and making it the standard. That's why I used the thief on the cross as an example. Some folks believe that all that is needed is "faith" because that is all the theif did to get saved. He didn't get baptized, he didn't do any works, he didn't do anything but believe. Applying his situation as a standard is bad theology, bad philosophy, bad reasoning, no matter how you slice it.

I still don't get why numbers even matter. If "right belief" isn't the most important and sincerity is, then sincerity should trump "right belief" under normal conditions (full knowledge, complete consent, grave matter, etc.) that I noted earlier. If a person is fully aware that something is wrong, consents to it, and actually does it, could any amount of sincerity trump it? If it can't, then I can't see what you say holding any water.

Originally Posted by lilithu

Victor, you're the one who inserted "sincerity" midway into this conversation. As I said in the other thread, I don't judge religions by their beliefs. I do judge religions by what you call their "fruits." The only thing I've been arguing is that belief is not the most important factor, based on the reasoning that I spelled out above.

See post #69......I was really just responding to your post and trying to stick with the same language to eliminate any confusion. I guess that didn't go so well.
Well I guess we disagree. Belief is what I use as a measuring stick. Fruits may or may not be in accordance with their beliefs. If bad fruits are produced, then I will rest on their beliefs to either confirm those bad fruits or point them out as flaws of the believers. If good fruits are produced, then that's great but if their belief system teaches violence, hate, etc. then they are not in accordance to their beliefs. Either way, their actions will be measured by what they themselves consider a standard.

[kiwimac]

I would argue Zoroastrianism but I guess you all expected that, right? Reform Judaism comes a close second with Reconstructionist Judaism third. (NOTE Reconstructionist Judaism is not to be confused with Reconstructionist Christianity.)

[lombas]

My religion is very practical.

Very, very, very practical.

Did I say it's practical?

[Feathers in Hair]

Originally Posted by lombas

My religion is very practical.

Very, very, very practical.

Did I say it's practical?

The obvious question follows:

What's your religion? (Other than cookies, judging by your avatar! )

[lombas]

Originally Posted by Feathers in Hair

The obvious question follows:

What's your religion? (Other than cookies, judging by your avatar! )

It goes from Taoism over Deism to Quakerism.

You could say it's just me. But that would take a hell of a lot of authority away from it, now would it?

[Feathers in Hair]

Originally Posted by lombas

It goes from Taoism over Deism to Quakerism.

You could say it's just me. But that would take a hell of a lot of authority away from it, now would it?

Hehee, ultimately, that's all the authority most of our religions have. (I know it would apply to mine, most certainly.) It still deserves to be treated with respect!