Fellowship, At What Cost? (rituals, soul, blood, hell, attend)

[cardero]

One of the main appeals to belonging to a religious organization is the idea that you are surrounded by people who share your faith, hopes and ideas. A chance to form strong binds with like-minded members who are out to achieve the same goals and strive for a common reward and to develop long lasting friendships but are they real relationships?

Sometimes this comraderie may come at a price and in some cases create sacrifice.

My father used to tell me that you are in school to learn and not to make friends. Could the same be true for religious institutions? Can someone actually be involved in a religious movement without getting involved with other members? Is the relationship with GOD more important to someone than the relationship with the flock? Is the value of fellowship more important than family ties and friends outside of religious activities?
If one is disfellowshipped or becomes an ex-member can a religious member still keep in touch with those they worshipped with? Does fellowship equal friendship? Should one’s established relationships end because we do not believe the same way or because we may have transgressed against the organization?

[Hema]

Fellowship is very important in my religion. We call it Satsangh. When we worship with others, there is a collective energy. When love - in this case - Divine love, is shared with others, it becomes more powerful. I see nothing wrong with being friends with those in fellowship. We go to worship and we should see God in others. They are our brothers and sisters in spirit. Fellowship does not always equate to friendship. Yes, we can extend our love to others in the congregation but how well do we know them on a personal level? Are we there for them when they need someone? Do we know their likes and dislikes? It is always ideal to be friends with others in fellowship but not compulsory. For eg. I can sit home and pray for people who are suffering in other parts of the world; it doesn't mean that I am friends with them. There are many people I share a smile with at Satsangh but I don't even know their phone numbers. I don't know much about their lives outside of Satsangh. Also, if you are friends with someone from the congregation, that friendship does not have to end if the fellowship ends. Friendship is not limited by that.

It must be really interesting at the Patrickism fellowship.

[mrsk]

One of the main appeals to belonging to a religious organization is the idea that you are surrounded by people who share your faith, hopes and ideas. A chance to form strong binds with like-minded members who are out to achieve the same goals and strive for a common reward and to develop long lasting friendships but are they real relationships?
The same could be said for bowling teams, book clubs, sewing/craft groups, etc.

Sometimes this comraderie may come at a price and in some cases create sacrifice.
Please be more specific..examples of price and sacrifice maybe?

My father used to tell me that you are in school to learn and not to make friends. Could the same be true for religious institutions?
In school to learn what though? Is it really JUST book learning? There are so many things to be learned from making, keeping, and losing friends!

Can someone actually be involved in a religious movement without getting involved with other members?
Not impossible but unlikely

Is the relationship with GOD more important to someone than the relationship with the flock?
Relationship with God is ALWAYS more important!!! ( or should be!)

Is the value of fellowship more important than family ties and friends outside of religious activities?
Not a simple question I think. The answer to that question would be situational.

If one is disfellowshipped or becomes an ex-member can a religious member still keep in touch with those they worshipped with?
Again, situational. Why are they no longer a member and are you spiritually in danger by continuing the relationship?

Does fellowship equal friendship?
I would hope so, but not always.

Should one’s established relationships end because we do not believe the same way or because we may have transgressed against the organization?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If Tom was on your bowling team and and suddenly decided he hated bowling, refused to bowl, and just wanted to sit there and convince you that you shouldn't bowl anymore either.....would you still want him there?
On the other hand if he just wasn't sure if he wanted to keep bowling, but had a good attitude and still wanted to hang with you, you would probably be ok with it?

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by cardero

One of the main appeals to belonging to a religious organization is the idea that you are surrounded by people who share your faith, hopes and ideas. A chance to form strong binds with like-minded members who are out to achieve the same goals and strive for a common reward and to develop long lasting friendships but are they real relationships?

I think that they can very well be "real"; on the other hand, I don't think they necessarily are.

Sometimes this comraderie may come at a price and in some cases create sacrifice.

My father used to tell me that you are in school to learn and not to make friends. Could the same be true for religious institutions?

Of course. Anyone who affiliates with any religion for the purpose of finding new friends is making a big mistake.

Can someone actually be involved in a religious movement without getting involved with other members? Is the relationship with GOD more important to someone than the relationship with the flock? Is the value of fellowship more important than family ties and friends outside of religious activities?

I see the fellowship I find in my faith as a natural outgrowth of the teachings its teachings. We're taught to show love, compassion and support to our fellow human beings. It goes without saying that you cannot help but develop bonds with those you serve.

If one is disfellowshipped or becomes an ex-member can a religious member still keep in touch with those they worshipped with? Does fellowship equal friendship? Should one’s established relationships end because we do not believe the same way or because we may have transgressed against the organization?

My religion does not require anyone to sever the bonds of friendship with anyway.

[BruceDLimber]

I see the comments above as quite correct!

Most religions, my own included, place a very high value on community and fellowship!

Absent this, the religion itself would lose much of its overall purpose and goals, the more so as furthering civilization generally is one of its main purposes!

Peace,

Bruce

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by cardero

Is the relationship with GOD more important to someone than the relationship with the flock?

If one thinks that one has to choose between a relationship with God and a relationship with community then I would suggest that one's view of God is in need of revision. It's not either/or. It's both/and.

[BFD_Zayl]

with my fellowship, we are not friends, we are brothers, bound blood and soul through ritual. a step not taken lightly, but it opens people up so much more, rituals that need more than one person seem to flow as if we were as one, and maybe during the ritual, we are.

[eudaimonia]

Originally Posted by cardero

One of the main appeals to belonging to a religious organization is the idea that you are surrounded by people who share your faith, hopes and ideas. A chance to form strong binds with like-minded members who are out to achieve the same goals and strive for a common reward and to develop long lasting friendships but are they real relationships?

My philosophical community is the Fellowship of Reason. As you might guess, fellowship -- what we understand as Aristotelian character-friendship -- is important there. You describe it well above.

I think fellowship is a positive contribution to personal flourishing, though like any tool it may be misused or misapplied. Fellowship is not everything in the Fellowship of Reason -- one is there to learn and grow as a person -- but fellowship is a tool for this and rewarding in its own right. One has to keep it in perspective in the overall picture of what one hopes to accomplish with one's life.


eudaimonia,

Mark

[cardero]

Mrsk you bring some very good points to this conversation.

Mrsk writes: The same could be said for bowling teams, book clubs, sewing/craft groups, etc.

Yes and you would be correct in assuming so. I have come to believe that these are also valid religions and reasons for gatherings.

Religions, we might say, satisfy a need for support. Most of the religions at this moment are just forms of support groups. People will come up to others and say, "Do you want to be in my religion? I'll support you." In that sense, Alcoholics Anonymous is a religion. Most of your political parties are religions. Even supporting sport teams is a religion.

HELLO IT’S ME: An Interview With GOD
Chapter: religion
Pg: 36

Mrsk writes: Please be more specific..examples of price and sacrifice maybe?

The price it costs to house these gatherings far exceed the ability to promote care (health, food, shelter and clothing), necessities and organizing acts of kindness to other people in need. I have also observed first hand severe acts of judgments to family and friends who are trying to recover from the separation of a religion or are involved in a relationship with an unbelieving partner. The attitude and intentions of some religious members towards people who are of a different race, creed or sexual preferrence doesn’t necessarily promote an air and feeling of fellowship. The penalties that disfellowship and excommunication bring to “lawbreakers” does not exemplify an air of fellowship but one of segregation and extreme prejudice.

Mrsk writes: Not a simple question I think. The answer to that question would be situational.

No, you’re right; these are not simple questions and sometimes they do not produce simple solutions. One of the things that I was very careful to include in my original post was the faith that some religions utilize to determine how close or distant the relationship that they encourage with other members should be. For example, if a religious member “offends” God what does this entail for the friendships that this member has accrued within the organization? It seems that in some religions they are only interested in you as long as you are interested in their religion and practing their faith. Once other members cannot provide the same religious support or faithfulness they see this as a betrayal and view other members as hopeless an unworthy of their time and attention.

[FatMan]

This may be a pessimistic view, but organized religion needs fellowship to take place. It aids in getting members of the Church to reach out to those who are infirmed, or may not be able to attend services. It aids in spreading the word about events, joys, concerns, things that bring people together as a community. It also aids in the gathering of funds. Studies show that congregations who are less drawn to the spirit of fellowship are less apt to provide for the Church. Thus, a strong fellowship gives incentive to donate for those who do not automatically tithe.

From strictly a belief standpoint, each person can and should be able to fend for themselves, but that rarely happens. Maybe it is because humans are a communal species, or maybe it is because we are drawn to or feel comfortable around those with similar thoughts and interests.

The comment above about fellowship being like a bowling team or a sewing club,etc. is an apt one. If you spend too much time immersed in fellowship, you run the risk of seeing negatives. For instance, I bowled many years. I also played baseball for many years. When you added up the bowling nights and the baseball nights, it was 3-4 nights a week. At some point, the fellowship of the teams were questioned by the fellowship of my wife. Thus, a happy balance has been struck.

People also need to find a happy balance in religion - but far too often you have either those who make the church a once a year event and those who make church the most important and all-immersing part of their lives. As with anything moderation is key - even when it pertains to fellowship - a point many will disagree with, but can rarely disprove.