Freedom of Religion - Freedom from Religion (rituals, mystic, beliefs)

[fantôme profane]

This is inspired by something MysticSang'ha said in another thread.

Originally Posted by MysticSang'ha

There is a huge difference between freedom of religion and freedom from religion. I've heard that said before in Christian circles, and it's an expression I fully agree with.

What does that mean? What is the difference? And how is that difference significant?

Is one more important than then other? Which one? Why?

Is it possible to have one without the other?

[UnTheist]

Freedom of religions means you can be whatever religion you want legally

Freedom from religion would possibly mean you are not controlled by anyone's religious beliefs. That's just my guess

[MaddLlama]

Freedom of religion means being free to choose which religion you want to follow, or choose not to follow any.

Freedom from religion means the freedom to not be forcibly held to the standards and laws of other religions. Also, the freedom to not have to listen to others evangelize or participate in others religious "rituals" if you don't want to.

[Fluffy]

Freedom of religion describes the attitude of wanting to let everyone in a society practice their religious beliefs without interference from other religious beliefs. Now in practice, obviously, this actually cuts out all those beliefs that stray too far from societal norms but since most religions are made up of people who follow those norms, it isn't an issue that arises too often.

Freedom from religion is the attitude which some secular and atheist groups are accused of having. It is supposed to imply that these groups wish to see a lack of religion or, more usually, that some law, having been perceived as anti-religious, was done to further such a cause. In other words, it is an attempt to attack a position by poisoning the well.

Less commonly the second phrase can be used to mean the removal of religion from the public sector since this is seen as the only way of being able to attain the belief described by the first phrase. So these people would view freedom of religion as impossible unless freedom from religion is first granted.

[fantôme profane]

Originally Posted by ÄĀṮṬØ

Freedom of religions means you can be whatever religion you want legally

Freedom from religion would possibly mean you are not controlled by anyone's religious beliefs. That's just my guess

This is my take as well. But if you can be any religion you want legally, then you should also be able to have no religion.

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

Freedom of religion means being free to choose which religion you want to follow, or choose not to follow any.

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

Freedom from religion means the freedom to not be forcibly held to the standards and laws of other religions. Also, the freedom to not have to listen to others evangelize or participate in others religious "rituals" if you don't want to.

Well said. But with that understanding, would it be possible to have one without the other? If you had to listen to others evangelize and you had to participate in others religious rituals then you would not have freedom of religion nor from religion. Isn’t the one concept implied by the other?

Originally Posted by Fluffy

Freedom of religion describes the attitude of wanting to let everyone in a society practice their religious beliefs without interference from other religious beliefs. Now in practice, obviously, this actually cuts out all those beliefs that stray too far from societal norms but since most religions are made up of people who follow those norms, it isn't an issue that arises too often.

Yes, I agree. Unfortunately we sometimes must place limits on fundamental freedoms in order to protect fundamental freedoms.

Originally Posted by Fluffy

Freedom from religion is the attitude which some secular and atheist groups are accused of having. It is supposed to imply that these groups wish to see a lack of religion or, more usually, that some law, having been perceived as anti-religious, was done to further such a cause. In other words, it is an attempt to attack a position by poisoning the well.

Now I think I am beginning to understand (maybe). Do you think that some people do actually use this phrase (freedom from religion) as a slogan to attack religion, or is it just perceived that way? Or is it a ploy used by those who actually do wish to deny freedom from religion (and thereby deny freedom of religion)?

Originally Posted by Fluffy

Less commonly the second phrase can be used to mean the removal of religion from the public sector since this is seen as the only way of being able to attain the belief described by the first phrase. So these people would view freedom of religion as impossible unless freedom from religion is first granted.

I confess, I think I am one of these people.

[xexon]

Freedom of religion is when you choose enslave yourself to one dogma or another and allow it to be your master.

Freedom from religion means you are free. You are your own master.

x

[lunamoth]

I thought that freedom from religion referred to the idea that one has a right to not be exposed to any religious symbolism, displays, teachings, greetings, or any public display of religion at all...kind of a play on words to imply that all religion must be kept private and out of view. No outdoor creches at Christmas, no "Merry Christmas" greetings at the store, and certainly no prayer in school, no door to door evangelism, no prayer before gov meetings, or professional ball games.

I usually heard it expressed in the negative, as in "we have freedom of religion (the right to practice any way we choose) but not freedom from religion (as in, you can't expect to never ever be exposed to religion even if you are not religious yourself).

But, reading the above I guess I was wrong about this!

[Kungfuzed]

Freedom of religion means religion is free to do what it wants to the rest of us, to infiltrate our schools, science, and govornment and pretty much have free reign. It's what our founding fathers wanted. We are free to accept it an be saved.

Freedom from religion means we are all a bunch of devil worshiping atheists and we're all going to hell.








PS: Please note a hint of sarcasm in my post

[Fluffy]

Now I think I am beginning to understand (maybe). Do you think that some people do actually use this phrase (freedom from religion) as a slogan to attack religion, or is it just perceived that way? Or is it a ploy used by those who actually do wish to deny freedom from religion (and thereby deny freedom of religion)?

Absolutely but not to the extent that the accusation makes out. There simply are not enough hardline atheists out there to form a substantial attack on religion.

For example, there might be a 6ft cross on governmental property outside my house. Many people will have an interest in having that cross removed. A very small minority will have a problem with religion and an even tinier minority of that group will fail to make a distinction between supernaturalist religions and naturalist religions. But a defender of the cross will happily turn around, point to that tiny minority and accuse the act of removing the cross as appeasing that minority.

Clearly those who use "Freedom from religion" in the negative are implying that there are those out there who do advocate it as an anti-religious attitude. A quick look at the demographics of America will immediatly show anyone how insignificant such a minority opinion would be and that if any political change were brought about due to "Freedom from religion" it could not be due to those who disliked or hated religion.

[wizanda]

Just to add the only way to be truly free from religion is to understand all, else they come and bite you.
The funniest bit is that is what the mustard seed means and so guess most fall short.