Is'nt the message of the gospel of Jesus a mystery to man "only" revealed by God (Jesus Christ, ritual)

[roli]

Although some of the stories and sayings in the bible can be self explanatory, illustrative and clearly definable the deep and hidden Mysteries of God, found in Jesus,heaven,hell,judgement,law,kingdom etc are of God through his spirit and cannot be understood by mere human intellect,below are some scriptures that support that claim.

Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables:
Col 1:26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory
1Cr 2:9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
Eph 1:17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Man has always tried to comprehend, debate and refute the scriptures and all of it's wisdom and truths through their own wisdom and intellect but such attempts to decipher these truths of God have been in vain as this verse clearly states.
1Cr 2:14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

[eudaimonia]

Circular reasoning. Bible quotes do not support this claim -- they merely show that the Bible authors believed this claim.


eudaimonia,

Mark

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by roli

1Cr 2:14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Doesn't that mean that all the words you are using to describe your faith and the meaning of the Bible and the gospel are just a shadow are not, of themselves, a true discernment?

Just curious. . .

[sojourner]

But, for the religous person, who speaks, operates and understands through the paradigm of a God-driven universe, it only makes sense. If, as I Chronicles says, "All things come of thee..." then wouldn't human intuition and understanding also come from God?

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by sojourner

But, for the religous person, who speaks, operates and understands through the paradigm of a God-driven universe, it only makes sense. If, as I Chronicles says, "All things come of thee..." then wouldn't human intuition and understanding also come from God?

Of course. That's true whatever connotation one derives from "God." But can that intuition be adequately captured by human reason and expressed in human language? Paul says, pretty emphatically, "No." They can only be "spritually discerned."

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

Of course. That's true whatever connotation one derives from "God." But can that intuition be adequately captured by human reason and expressed in human language? Paul says, pretty emphatically, "No." They can only be "spritually discerned."

But language is our construct of understanding. And most people who are "in touch" with the divine Self perceive that the kind of understanding that correlates to language is secondary to the kind of understanding to which only intuition can speak.

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by sojourner

But language is our construct of understanding.

Is it the only form of understanding? You seem to be saying "no" with this next part:

Originally Posted by sojourner

And most people who are "in touch" with the divine Self perceive that the kind of understanding that correlates to language is secondary to the kind of understanding to which only intuition can speak.

So the words by which we attempt to encapsulate the Gospel (doctrine, dogma) are secondary to intuitively feeling the Gospel? Is that right?

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

Is it the only form of understanding? You seem to be saying "no" with this next part:


So the words by which we attempt to encapsulate the Gospel (doctrine, dogma) are secondary to intuitively feeling the Gospel? Is that right?

Our words are our way of intellectualizing what is basically an intuition. We are whole human beings -- spiritual, intellectual, emotional and physical. Our understanding of the Divine is best accomplished when all of these aspects have expression in our understanding.

[michel]

Originally Posted by roli

Although some of the stories and sayings in the bible can be self explanatory, illustrative and clearly definable the deep and hidden Mysteries of God, found in Jesus,heaven,hell,judgement,law,kingdom etc are of God through his spirit and cannot be understood by mere human intellect,below are some scriptures that support that claim.

Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables:
Col 1:26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory
1Cr 2:9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
Eph 1:17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Man has always tried to comprehend, debate and refute the scriptures and all of it's wisdom and truths through their own wisdom and intellect but such attempts to decipher these truths of God have been in vain as this verse clearly states.
1Cr 2:14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

I believe that the mistery is God him/her/it self; once we understand God, everything else will click into place.

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by sojourner

Our words are our way of intellectualizing what is basically an intuition.

But are the words "the Truth"? Or is the intuitive experience the truth? What do you think of Paul's notion that we can't intellectualize such intuition? What is he missing?