Kerry said to be excommunicated (reject, doctrine, church, dogma)

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Kerry said to be excommunicated

Catholic World News

Los Angeles, Oct. 18 (CWNews.com) - A consultant to the Vatican has said Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry has incurred the penalty of excommunication from the Catholic Church.

The consultant made his statement in a highly unusual letter to Marc Balestrieri, a Los Angeles canon lawyer who formally sued John Kerry in ecclesiastical court for heresy.

Balestrieri, who launched his case earlier this year by filing a heresy complaint in Kerry's home archdiocese of Boston, told EWTN's "World Over" program on Friday that he had received an unusual, indirect communication from the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith regarding the pro-abortion stance.

That communication provides a basis, he said, to declare that any Catholic politician who says he is "personally opposed to abortion, but supports a woman's right to choose," incurs automatic excommunication. It also provided a basis for Balestrieri to broaden his canonical actions and file additional complaints against four more pro-abortion Catholic politicians: Democrat Senators Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts and Tom Harkin of Iowa; Republican Senator Susan Collins of Maine; and former New York Governor Mario Cuomo, a Democrat.

The current action could be significant as it could undercut the entire debate over denying Communion to pro-abortion politicians. An excommunicated Catholic may not receive any of the sacraments of the Church, including the Eucharist, marriage, and even Christian burial. The type of excommunication outlined in the new information is called latae sententiae, which means that it occurs automatically and does not require a formal pronouncement by any Church official.

Balestrieri said he went to Rome in late August to discuss his canonical case with experts, including an official of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Less than 10 days later, he received a letter from Father Basil Cole, a Dominican theologian and consultant to the congregation based in Washington, DC, who said he had been "delegated" by Father Augustine DiNoia, undersecretary of the congregation, to give an unofficial response to the question that Balestrieri had submitted.

"I went to Rome in person to submit two critical questions to the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith," said Balestrieri. "The first: Whether or not the Church's teaching condemning any direct abortion is a dogma of Divine and Catholic Faith, and if the denial and doubt of the same constitutes heresy. The second: Whether or not a denial of the Church's teaching condemning every right to abortion also constitutes heresy. Father Cole, an expert theologian who studied the matter carefully, responded in the affirmative on both counts."

Father Cole wrote, "If a Catholic publicly and obstinately supports the civil right to abortion, knowing that the Church teaches officially against that legislation, he or she commits that heresy envisioned by Can. 751 of the Code [of Canon Law]. Provided that the presumptions of knowledge of the law and penalty and imputability are not rebutted in the external forum, one is automatically excommunicated ...."

Balestrieri said the response was unusual in several respects: that a response was provided to a layman at the request of the undersecretary in only 11 days, that the response was in writing, decisively clarifying the matter, and that it was in far greater detail than a typical official reply. "Normally, only a bishop may request such clarification of doctrine from the CDF, such responses usually take a much longer time to be received, and they are rarely made public," he said.

He also said that the original canonical complaint of heresy against Kerry had received so much response from the public that the tribunal of the Archdiocese of Boston has been deluged with thousands of letters from ordinary Catholics who wish to add their names to the complaint. The head of the archdiocesan tribunal reportedly told him that the case had not been rejected and was "now in the hands of the archbishop," that is, Archbishop Sean O'Malley of Boston.

Balestrieri, a self-identified political independent, says that his actions come as a defender of the faith and Holy Eucharist from sacrilege and scandal, not as one focused on an electoral outcome. "Our victory can come as early as today: It would be for Sen. Kerry, who publicly calls himself a Catholic and yet in violation of Canon Law continues to receive Holy Communion, to repent of his grave sin and publicly recant his abortion advocacy."

The complete text of Father Cole's response as well as other details of the pending cases are available on the DeFide.com web site.

I think it's time for the Catholic church to register as a foriegn agent, lose its tax status and possibly it's embassarial status. They threaten our democratic process.

-pah-

[robtex]

Pah the tax status is a great idea. Lets face the Catholic church didn't get to be the empire that it has become without playing hardball in the political arena. Seperation of Church and state should be a requirement for tax free status.

[Green Gaia]

Kerry can join the Unitarians, we'll take him.

[linwood]

Well.
I don`t know why but I am surprised.
Heresy?!!
Excommunication?!!

This is the 21st century..they`ve gotta get with the program.
lol.

It`s probably a good thing .

[linwood]

The Vatican disputes that lawyers claim..

Vatican officials contacted by CNS Oct. 19 said they did not agree with Father Cole's conclusion that Kerry has incurred excommunication.

"You can incur excommunication 'latae sententiae' (automatically) only if you procure or perform an abortion," one said.

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/sto...ns/0405749.htm


I`m almost disappointed.

[Ardhanariswar]

sigh. they are soo mindless.

[logos]

Ok, I think there needs to be a little bit of a clarification. Excommunication is being excluded from communion. In other words, being outside of the community of believers. Now, the Catholic Church aside, if someone professes a contrary belief that is important to a community of believers then would that not, by default, bring upon their exclusion to that community? If they did not share the beliefs of that community they profess to belong to how then can they be part of that community?

The same is true here, the Church is merely making explicit what Kerry has already implicitly done, although, I am not sure that they have indeed made this explicit. Regardless, a denial of the central tenets of any belief system excludes them from that belief system.

Also, you guys seem adamant about making the Catholic Church have to pay taxes because they have gotten involved in politics on the basis of the belief of the separation of Church and State. However, keep in mind that Kerry never had to openly admit that he was Catholic nor did he have to openly admit that he was pro-choice. The Church did not get involved until he made that announcement. Yet, when the Church intervenes as it should since Kerry professes the same faith as all Catholics, suddenly the Church is the big bad political institution trying to impose their views upon the government. So, if the separation of Church and State really existed then Kerry should have not said a word. A double standard exists. He can profess to be a Catholic but when the Catholic Church gets involved everyone yells how dare the Church do that, what ever happened to the separation of Church and State.

The Church is merely reiterating what it has always held, it is Kerry that is getting the Church involved.

Just my .02

[linwood]

The Church is merely reiterating what it has always held, it is Kerry that is getting the Church involved.

No.
Kerry cannot rfuse to answer inquiries as to his personal faith and he most certainly He He cannot refuse to answer inquires into his personal beliefs of abortion.
These two questions are central to many peoples decision making process ..the voters must know.

The people who got the church involved are the Bishops making false announcements and this lawyer filing suit for excommunication for political views.

It`s altogether disgusting.

[logos]

Originally Posted by linwood

No.
Kerry cannot rfuse to answer inquiries as to his personal faith and he most certainly He He cannot refuse to answer inquires into his personal beliefs of abortion.
These two questions are central to many peoples decision making process ..the voters must know.

The people who got the church involved are the Bishops making false announcements and this lawyer filing suit for excommunication for political views.

It`s altogether disgusting.

i don't agree, but that is neither here nor there. What about the fact that he professes to be Catholic and yet does not abide by Catholic beliefs? What if a Muslim decided that he did not believe Mohammed was a Prophet? Why is it only the Catholic Church that cannot do something about its members but other religions can do as they please?

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Originally Posted by logos

i don't agree, but that is neither here nor there. What about the fact that he professes to be Catholic and yet does not abide by Catholic beliefs? What if a Muslim decided that he did not believe Mohammed was a Prophet? Why is it only the Catholic Church that cannot do something about its members but other religions can do as they please?

There is very much an atheist desire and hope that religion will be practised by individuals. Any religious or religion that needs to force society into one of the conflicting models of religion is ultimately un-democratic.

-pah-