How Much Can We Know About Deity? (rituals, beliefs, Revelation)

[Sunstone]

How much can we know about deity? If that amounts to knowing anything at all about deity, then how do we know it?

It is sometimes argued that we cannot know what deity is, but only what deity is not. Is this true? Why or why not?

[Quoth The Raven]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

How much can we know about deity? If that amounts to knowing anything at all about deity, then how do we know it?

It is sometimes argued that we cannot know what deity is, but only what deity is not. Is this true? Why or why not?

Can you really know anything about deity? Isn't the object of faith to believe without knowing?

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

How much can we know about deity? If that amounts to knowing anything at all about deity, then how do we know it?

Only as much as God chooses to reveal to us.

It is sometimes argued that we cannot know what deity is, but only what deity is not. Is this true? Why or why not?

That, cataphatic theology, is our dominant theological approach so I would agree that this is true, with the exception of those things revealed to us by God. We are certainly incapable of really knowing God and apophatic theology often tends towards the invention of human rationalisations which can in no way be certain of coming close to the truth. Cataphatic theology is simply safer.

James

[angellous_evangellous]

How much can we know about deity?

As much as the deity reveals.

If that amounts to knowing anything at all about deity, then how do we know it?

The deity told us.

It is sometimes argued that we cannot know what deity is, but only what deity is not.

If the deity tells us what "it" is not, then we know what it's not. Otherwise, we don't know anything.

[Fluffy]

I'm currently uncertain whether we can know anything at all. However, I would like to ask those who say they are able to know things about their deity based on the deity's word, why can the deity simply not lie?

[Willamena]

It is my belief that we can know nothing about deity, but we can deduce things about it.

I have no opinion on revelation, except to say that I don't believe god is an intelligence in the same way we are, so would not communicate directly with us.

It is my opinion that we don't have to know anything about deity, at all. It's not necessary, either to us or to our religions. We have, by our nature, an image of god that we hold in our heads and in our hearts, that is a soulful reflection of our own self. That is the object that we use to build our relationship to the deity. The rites and rituals of religion define that relationship; our philosophies and beliefs inform it, and in turn are informed by it.

We can know what deity is not: it is not anything we know. This is agnosticism.

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by Willamena

It is my belief that we can know nothing about deity, but we can deduce things about it.

I have no opinion on revelation, except to say that I don't believe god is an intelligence in the same way we are, so would not communicate directly with us.

It is my opinion that we don't have to know anything about deity, at all. It's not necessary, either to us or to our religions. We have, by our nature, an image of god that we hold in our heads and in our hearts, that is a soulful reflection of our own self. That is the object that we use to build our relationship to the deity. The rites and rituals of religion define that relationship; our philosophies and beliefs inform it, and in turn are informed by it.

We can know what deity is not: it is not anything we know. This is agnosticism.

How can we deduce something about which we can know nothing?

Don't deductions have to be based on evidence?

Sounds like a whole new type of logic that's irrational.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

How can we deduce something about which we can know nothing?

Don't deductions have to be based on evidence?

Sounds like a whole new type of logic that's irrational.

It does!

It does sound like that. But what is knowledge? If it is information, data, facts about things that are, then we cannot know that anything we know is knowledge because we are limited to our perceptions; or we can trust that everything we perceive and know is knowledge. This includes everything we input, even from imagination. Most people are more specific in their ideas about what knowledge is: knowledge is what we know that is apparently backed up by fact.

On the other hand we have intuition, which is a form of deduction that takes input from the senses and makes a bit more of it. It *is* irrational, totally independent of reasoning processes. It makes apparent sense of 'non'-sense.

When I spoke of deduction, I meant two things: intuition and the rationale we try to apply to that input in order to make sense of it. These things lead to conclusions, whether we like them or not, whether we try to or not, whether we can justify them or not.

At the risk of confusing people: knowledge of deity is not knowledge of anything we actually know we have knowledge of.
Edit: Eh, forget that last line. It confuses even me.