Why Don't We Need Prophets Anymore? (mystic, elder, church, Revelation)

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

To me a prophet is someone who receives divine revelation. All they need to do to be a prophet is write down that revelation.

So writing is critical?

No place for oral, musical, or any other type of prophetic acts? Miracles?

EDIT: Honestly I think some acts in history have been prophetic - like some military victories, scientific discoveries, and even good receipies and sexual positions (some prophets are popular and some aren't ).

IMO, God is interested in being active in every part of our lives.

[ALifetimeToWaitFor....]

How can you tell the difference between a prophet and a madman?

Hehe. Well divine revelation like that given to miriam and aaron is not given by the direction communication to God. Moses on the other had spoke directly to God he beheld the spirt of the Lord directly as can be found in Exodus. Moses was a madman he heard things that were not of this reality, that no else could see or hear. Now the message is what seperates the undeniable truth from the ludacris. Not the mental state of the messenger. It can obviously be argued that he was not insane, but isn't God restricted to the rules of his creation while he is in it? He can manipulate those rules, but cannot break them, IMO. That being said God mostly likely saw that this man had a pure heart and gave him auditory hallucinations.

Of course I am a little biased.

[cardero]

Originally Posted by Booko

I guess I have a different understanding of a prophet, then. To me it has more to do with delivering a message of some sort that can move humanity to the next level. Predicting the future is, at most, a side issue.

Is the future mutable from God's pov, sitting outside of time?

Actually they are very similar. Though the role of mail person (messenger) is usually assigned to the prophet (in itself an absurd premise) the message usually “foretells” what is expected of humankind. Whether humankind fulfills this expectancy is never guaranteed. With the advent of free will (or the presumption that free will exists) this decision to listen, follow, evolve into the kind of person that GOD wills us to be, is never certain. GOD is very aware of time (past, present and future). What this knowledge of "GOD time" entails for humans is an interesting concept and probably deserves a thread of its own.

And example of this would be the Biblical prophesy that explains the last days.

“In the Last Days, nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom; there will be shortages of food, earthquakes in one place after another, increase a lawlessness, men becoming faint out of fear. There will be disobedience to parents. We will be lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God; we will be lovers of money and will display a form of Godly devotion that will prove to be false, not to mention lead to ruination of the earth.”

Now according to some religions these are the signs that will bring fourth God’s Kingdom on earth. If everyone should not commit or complete these signs (read: behave) then there would be no reason to bring God’s prophesy of an earthly kingdom to conclusion. You have not only changed the future but you have also thwarted God’s plan or prophesy. The Bible becomes ineffectual as a way to predict the future and renders the Biblical authors inadequate. How can humans correct such a misunderstanding? They can start by making sure this prophesy becomes fulfilled, which is what I believe we are experiencing today.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by cardero

Actually they are very similar. Though the role of mail person (messenger) is usually assigned to the prophet (in itself an absurd premise) the message usually “foretells” what is expected of humankind.

What do you mean by "what is expected"?

The Jews more often the not were reminded of morality that ALREADY WAS REVEALED. The prophets simply reminded them of past convenants with God.

[cardero]

Originally Posted by Radio Frequency X

How can you tell the difference between a prophet and a madman?

A prophet spells it P-R-O-P-H-E-T
A madman spells it P-R-O-F-I-T

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Booko

One version is a person who just predicts the future. In the religious context, I think this too narrow and not a very useful definition.

A second version is an otherwise normal individual who has the gift of prophecy. To me, this is more like someone who's very good at listening to the HS, and might be called "inspired." They do not speak with the authority of God, even though they are tapped into the HS. (This is what you're referring to, yes, Sojourner?)

A third version is people like the Biblical "minor prophets." They get a message from God more directly than us mere individuals who have the gift of prophesy. They speak with authority, but they call people back to a religion that already exists.

A fourth version is people that start entire new religions, like Moses, Jesus, Krishna, Zoroaster, Muhammad, and Baha'u'llah. Like the minor prophets, they appear to be different than just a person who has the gift of prophesy. They do NOT call people back to an existing religion -- they build upon an existing one. They also speak with authority, but unlike minor prophets, they have the authority to overturn social laws* that have outlived their usefulness, and add new social laws that are needed for the times.

*Social law: laws such as marriage and divorce laws, inheritance laws, dietary laws, details on how and when to pray, etc.

*Universal law: Core laws that demand honesty, loving your neighbor, treating others well, that are present in all religions.

I like your four different 'levels' of prophet Booko, but I might suggest that the levels have more to do with the degree of penetration of insight and the scope of vision that is given, rather than to degrees of authority.

So, keeping in mind that the Source of each of the insights a prophet as is the same One:

Your first level prophet who 'sees' the future has actually just penetrated with insight into one or a small slice of reality. The future manifestation of a particular event is as clear to her as the present day facts. Her prophecy may be recognized by a few if she shares it, but really it is only in hindsight that we look back as see her as a prophet.

Your second level prophet I would actually put as first because it is all of us who 'listen.' Our prophecies are typically to illuminate our own paths and we test them within the paradigm of our religion and values. There are also some who are given prophecies to lift and build the community that they are in. I would include those who call for things like social justice in their churches and communities to be this kind of prophet.

Your third level, which I guess is like Isaiah, has insight from God with deeper penetration into what IS and further ranging ramification: you folks have ignored God's advice to treat each other with care, you have taken what has not belonged to you. As long as the world continues to operate this way, you are going to end up suffering because of this. The only way out is going to be a radical change in how you do things, the way of the Suffering Servant.

Your fourth level is the most radical of all. It is an example of what can only be understood as God among us, manifested for example as a cloud with a voice, or the human embodiment of Love. It is the awakening of humanity to a whole new way of thinking: the way out the minor prophets told us was needed. The veil is ripped open.

These are not hard and fast catagories, but they represent the Divine breaking through to us as individuals, as communities, as peoples, and the world.

[BruceDLimber]

Originally Posted by Victor

It is only rarely, and at a later period, that prophecy is called nebû'ah, a cognate of nabî'; more ordinarily we find hazôn, vision, or word of God, oracle (ne um) of Yahweh, etc.

Hi, Victor!

In fact, there are two different Arabic words commonly translated into English as "prophet!"

The first is indeed "nabi," which refers to a minor prophet (such as Jeremiah or Micah).

The second is Ras'ul, which means a major Divine Messenger such as Jesus, Muhammad, or Baha'u'llah.

And we Baha'is stress the difference between the two, in that only the latter have the right to found new religions (actually, new stages in the ever-evolving Faith of God) and alter/abolish earlier Divine Laws .

Regards,

Bruce

[cardero]

Originally Posted by Victor

What do you mean by "what is expected"?

The Jews more often the not were reminded of morality that ALREADY WAS REVEALED. The prophets simply reminded them of past convenants with God.

Sometimes, as Booko pointed out, prophets show up at appropriate times to redefine what is expected of humans from God. This may be defined as a new understanding (the proper spiritual food at the proper time). These terms or expectancies from God can be familiar or totally reevaluated depending on what agenda the prophet has for humankind.

Correct me if I misunderstood your post.