Ten Commandments - One at A Time (dogma, eternity, bible)

The Voice of Reason · #1 10-09-2004, 09:53 PM

I wish to examine each of the Ten Commandments, one at a time, until we have pretty much explored it as far as we can.

Since I claim to be rational and logical, I'll kick this baby off by starting with the first commandment. Many of you would prefer that I begin with #8 or #3, but I want to do this right. So - here goes.

The first commandment - "Thou shalt have no other Gods befor me".

Okay - pretty straightforward. You wouldn't think there is much room for discussion here, but I want to put that to rest right away.

My take on it is that this seems incredibly self serving. Basically, we are gonna start this religion off with the premise that I am God, you cannot question me, and whatever you do, don't look at some of the other options.

This has always reminded me of one of the great lines from (in my opinion) the greatest movie ever made - The Wizard of Oz.

Does anyone else see the similarities of the first commandment to the line from the movie - "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!!"? Basically, the false Wizard is telling Dorothy and her friends not to question him, don't even look at anything else - just follow me blindly, and do as your told. If Toto hadn't pulled back the curtain, they could have worshiped the goodness of the Wizard for eternity.

Let the games begin...
TVOR

Ronald · #2 10-09-2004, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Voice of Reason

It's just my opinion
TVOR

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day!!

linwood · #3 10-09-2004, 10:33 PM

I would like to know why these 10?

I mean there is no list of the ten biggest rules in the Bible so who picked these from the hundreds of rules in the book?

I think I could pick ten Biblical Laws that would be more ethical.

The Voice of Reason · #4 10-10-2004, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linwood

I would like to know why these 10?
I mean there is no list of the ten biggest rules in the Bible so who picked these from the hundreds of rules in the book?
I think I could pick ten Biblical Laws that would be more ethical.

I have no doubt that you could Linwood. Unfotunately, I don't have your depth of knowledge of the Bible. I just used the Ten Commandments because they are the most universally recognized. Personally, I couldn't care less which verses or commandments we discuss, so if you want to bring one up, I'm game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronald

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day!!

Ronald - I apologize. I should have indicated in the title that the point of the thread is to see if the Christians (I would include you in that category) are interested in discussing the Ten Commandments from the perspective of logic and reason, rather than from the standpoint of dogma and revealed faith. If you want to discuss the Ten Commandments based solely on those criteria, then this is the wrong thread. The discussion of commandments based on the Christian dogma and revealed faith should take place in the "Christian" forum (I would think). In that forum, you won't be challenged to question the veracity of your faith (you can surround yourself with other like-minded people). In this forum, you will be challenged to defend your position (in threads like this).

TVOR

linwood · #5 10-10-2004, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Voice of Reason

I have no doubt that you could Linwood. Unfotunately, I don't have your depth of knowledge of the Bible. I just used the Ten Commandments because they are the most universally recognized. Personally, I couldn't care less which verses or commandments we discuss, so if you want to bring one up, I'm game.

Sorry TVOR I was getting away from the intent of your post.

I know why you chose these ten for discussion considering they are the laws Christians believe are the most important.

I was just wondering why they think these to be the most important.

I`m late for work but I`ll have a shot at the first commandment tonight when I get back.

meogi · #6 10-10-2004, 09:34 AM

From a logic standpoint, what exactly are the premises? There is a god?

I ask because your analogy to the wizard of oz isn't valid if that is a premiss. Because if there is a god, then the wizard would not be false. It would then be irrelevant that there is a man behind the curtain. But I see what you're saying if it isn't.

Quote:

Thou shalt have no other Gods befor me

And I've never thought about it before... but you could worship any gods you want, as long as the judeo-christian one came first...

And I wish I could find George Carlin's "Why we don't need 10 commandments" skit... that cracks me up.

The Voice of Reason · #7 10-10-2004, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meogi

From a logic standpoint, what exactly are the premises? There is a god?

I ask because your analogy to the wizard of oz isn't valid if that is a premiss. Because if there is a god, then the wizard would not be false. It would then be irrelevant that there is a man behind the curtain. But I see what you're saying if it isn't.

And I've never thought about it before... but you could worship any gods you want, as long as the judeo-christian one came first...

And I wish I could find George Carlin's "Why we don't need 10 commandments" skit... that cracks me up.

Meogi -
The premise (unstated) is that God exists. We must assume the premise, or any further discussion is pointless. This does not mean that we agree to (or accept) the premise, only that we will accept it for the sake of the debate.

Your point that if we accept the premise that God exists, then the wizard would not be false eludes me. Whether God exists or not, has no bearing on the existence of the Wizard - it was simply an analogy I used to demonstrate the logical fallacy of begging the question. There is probably also an argument regarding the fallacy of the appeal to authority, but it hasn't arisen in this thread yet. Others will arise as the thread is played out.

Actually, your statement about worshipping other Gods is very accurate. From a purely logical standpoint, the existence of other God's is clearly implied in the statement. I think (but am not sure) that there is an argument made by scholars that other Gods were simply not to be worshipped. Perhaps members with stronger Biblical and historical backgrounds (linwood, Deut, SOG, etc.) will shed some light on this.

I love Carlin - and I have never heard his bit about the 10 Commandments.

TVOR

standing_on_one_foot · #8 10-10-2004, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linwood

I would like to know why these 10?

I mean there is no list of the ten biggest rules in the Bible so who picked these from the hundreds of rules in the book?

I think I could pick ten Biblical Laws that would be more ethical.

Those ten are the ten, as it were, because they're the ones that God speaks on Sinai to all the Israelites. Yeah, there are, what, 603 other ones, but those are kinda the big ones because those're supposedly the ones God says to everyone.

Lightkeeper · #9 10-10-2004, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by standing_on_one_foot

Those ten are the ten, as it were, because they're the ones that God speaks on Sinai to all the Israelites. Yeah, there are, what, 603 other ones, but those are kinda the big ones because those're supposedly the ones God says to everyone.

I like to look at this commandment as meaning don't worship money, food, another person rather than having more spiritual principals.